What’s New in the Cross Reference Library? Fact v.s. Fiction

For the Record - Betsy Huckabee has big-city dreams, but nobody outside of tiny Pine Gap, Missouri, seems interested in the articles she writes for her uncle’s newspaper. Her hopes for independence may be crushed, until the best idea she’s ever had comes riding into town. Deputy Joel Puckett didn’t want to leave Texas, but unfair circumstances have made3 moving to Pine Gap his only shot at keeping a badge. Worse, this small town has big problems, and masked marauders have become too comfortable taking justice into their own hands. He needs to make clear that he’s the law in this town—and that job is made more difficult with a nosy reporter who seems to follow him everywhere he goes. The hero Betsy creates to be the star in a serial for the ladies’ pages is based on the dashing deputy, but he’s definitely fictional. And  since the pieces run only in newspapers far away, no one will ever know. But the more time she spends with Deputy Puckett, the more she appreciates the real hero—and the more she realizes what her ambition could cost him. 

Divided We Stand - The ideological left is transforming America into something our founders never intended. Our national motto, E pluribus unum, no longer means “out of many, one,” but has been replaced with Ex uno, multi, “out of one, many.” In divided America, it means identity consciousness reigns as we become polarized by calls for diversity, equity, and inclusion; that radical view is echoed by the intimidated business world, most media, the corrupted education establishment, and especially the deep-state big government. Behind the veil of massive corruption, polarization is tearing at our foundation at the hands of the big egos of the rich and powerful—especially their evil agent, Satan. In Divided We Stand, Bob Maginnis reveals this insidious agenda and explores where it intends to take America and accelerate steps to the prophetic end times. Maginnis identifies  in seventeen chapters: 

• The roots of division seeking to transform America, especially the powerful elite and their unseen master, Satan

• Division as the instrument for evil across human history from world wars, dark personalities, and ideological movements

• The deeply divided America, which is afflicted with cancerous polarization in seven critical institutions—family, politics, religion, education, the workplace, the media, and government

• Strategies to overcome that cancerous division from family to nation-state, offering real recommendations to help reclaim America

• Specific and principled Holy Spirit-guided roles for today’s Christian living in this polarized world and insights into how division plays a leading part in the soon-coming prophetic end times

Petitioning the Great Provider: How God answered two of my toughest prayers

Prayer is a pretty amazing thing. 

“He Shall Hear My Voice” by Michael Dudash

The fact that when Jesus died, the veil in the temple was torn, allowing us to enter the Holy of Holies and now we have full access to God is…well, if you think about it, it’s truly audacious of us to request things of our all powerful, all knowing creator. And yet, He wants us to come to Him… it’s incomprehensible really.. 

I am pretty sure I barely understand prayer, but I would like to share a couple things I’ve learned by telling you about one particular night when one of my most urgent prayers was answered and one of my most consistently prayed prayers was realized.

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I didn’t say “answered” for that second prayer because it had been being answered for as long as I had been praying it, I just hadn’t liked the answer. But, that night, I realized at least one of the reasons why God had been answering me the way He was.

The night I’m going to tell you about was also one of the worst nights of my life.

by Jeremy Man

My most consistently prayed prayer was one of vanity. From as early as I can remember I struggled with self-image. I have never been small. Even when I was fit, I was still larger than society had me convinced I should be. I wanted to be tiny, to be a wisp of a thing, the kind of girl who could be lifted into the air and spun around by her boyfriend. Instead, I’ve always been built more like a brick wall. 

eating disorder – Sara Prentice

And, no, I didn’t just lay around praying and hoping God would transform my body, I worked hard for it. I honestly worked out almost every day for most of my life since I was in grade school and I’ve always eaten hardly anything. To the extent of ending up with a starvation focused eating disorder. But no matter how much I worked out or how little I ate, I never lost weight, I only ever seemed to gain it.

God could have easily let me lose weight. It wasn’t even like He would have had to give it to me as a gift, I had given up enough and worked hard enough to earn it. He could have even given me a body where I didn’t need to work so hard in the first place. But He didn’t. He kept answering my prayers where I requested a change in body type with a resounding, “No”. And I was consistently just like…but…why not?

You see, the thing is, Romans 8:28 says, “And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose.” God knows what bodies we need for the lives we are going to lead and He will stick to His decisions–even when we are begging Him for something different than what we need–because He knows things we don’t know.

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“Trapped- Domestic Violence” by Sherrie Thai

So, fast forward to the night of focus. I was 30 years old and married to my first husband, who as it turned out had a lot of hidden psychological issues, which made him dangerous to me and to everyone else in my life. I’m not going to go into detail about all the build up to this day, other than to say there was no doubt in my mind that we were on the road to him ending my life. We were living in the basement of my mom’s house, planning on buying the house from her. But this night sometime in early October–after a truly terrifying evening the day before–I was finally determined to tell my husband he had to find somewhere else to live and we needed to be separated for a bit while we figured out his mental health. 

We were in the garage because that was his space since he liked working on cars. He wasn’t taking what I was saying very well. But, fortunately, in this moment he had decided to try getting me to pity him instead of fear him. I wanted more than anything to find a way to get him to leave the house without things getting violent, because I was worried for my mom who was off in her room, and for my dogs. So, I was comforting him, trying not to escalate things. 

I vividly remember sitting on the cement floor with the head of a man, whom I believed would kill me if I took one wrong move, cradled in my lap as he cried and claimed he had nowhere to go. I was at a loss for what to do next. All I could do was pray.

“Dear God, I need your help. I know you hate divorce, but staying with him is no longer just dangerous to me, it's dangerous to everyone else I care about. I need him out of the house, but I want him to have somewhere safe to go. I don’t know how to make that happen. I need You to make it happen.”

And He did. 

I had believed keeping things from escalating was the way to go, but God knew something else needed to happen. 

We ended up moving to the living room and my mom came out of her room to check on me–because she knew what I was trying to do that night. But, my ex knew having her around would make it harder for him to manipulate me, so he burst into a blind rage and attacked her. 

Fortunately, when it comes to fight or flight, I’m a fighter. He only got one punch in before I was able to get between them. I wrestled with him and eventually got him down onto the couch. 

My mom panicked and hurried to call 911.

After I had gotten him down onto the couch I heard her on the phone telling the cops that he had me in a headlock and I corrected her, “No, I have him.”

But, I almost hadn’t had him. The difference between me being able to hold him down and him getting free, was fractional. 

Break Free Painting by Nicole Troup

I honestly can’t remember most of what happened while I was trying to subdue him. At one point he had even apparently pulled out a huge chunk of my hair, but I don’t really remember that happening. However, I do remember one moment vividly. When I was on top of him on the couch, he almost threw me off of him and I knew that if he did manage to do that, he would grab the nearest weapon and things would get so much worse. 

So, I buckled down and made sure the weight of my entire body was on top of him. And in that moment, it clicked, I needed every bit of strength I had, and every single pound of weight I had in order to keep him down. And I literally thought, “Thank God that none of my diets have worked.”

That’s when I realized that God had known that this moment was coming in my life and He knew what kind of body I would need to make it through. Being a tiny wisp of a thing whose boyfriend could twirl her in the air, would not have helped me in the life I, specifically, was going to live. 

Betsie ten Boom

Sure, maybe there’s an infinity of other ways that all could’ve played out. But God knew how things would play out. And, as Corrie Ten Boom’s sister Betsie said, ““There are no ‘ifs’ in God’s world. And no places that are safer than other places. The center of His will is our only safety – let us pray that we may always know it.”

The cops ended up arresting my ex husband that night.

That’s how God answered my more urgent prayer, one which I had prayed having no idea how it could possibly get answered. My ex was now no longer at my house and he was also taken somewhere where he would be kept safe. 

I know being arrested isn’t ideal, but in the mental state he was in, it was the safest option for him. It was also an outcome I would not have planned myself. I had wanted things to stay as calm as possible, but God had allowed things to escalate. My mom and I had only suffered minor physical injuries, but it was just enough for the cops to have reason to arrest him. God had known what needed to be done for the best possible outcome in that moment and He had threaded the needle, working out His will amongst the mess of our humanity and free will.

Image © Daniel Pape from GoodSalt.com

Sometimes God’s answer to our prayer is “no” and that may be infuriating to us, but we have to remember that He knows things we don’t know. And while we are most likely thinking from a limited worldly perspective, He is seeing things from an all-knowing eternal perspective.

Sometimes we make terrible life choices which get us into horrible situations. But, God is still there, lovingly waiting for us to bring the mess we made into the Holy of Holies and ask Him to fix it.

God is Love Painting by Ladislav Zaborsky

Like I said, I am not an expert on prayer. But, for some reason, God loves us enough to offer us His ear and His help; and there is no doubt in my mind that it is always in our best interest to take Him up on that offer.

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If you’re looking for a useful tool to help you in your prayer life, check out this Interactive Prayer Journal by Amanda Hovseth (click here).

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This series of blog posts titled, “Holding on to Reason”, is named after Amanda’s favorite C.S. Lewis quote: “Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason has once accepted, in spite of your changing moods.”

Click here for more things written or transcribed by Amanda Hovseth.

How Can You Take A Out Of Context Verse And Teach The Context?

You can listen to Ask The Pastor every weekday at 9:00am MST on 97.1FM Hope Radio KCMI! You can also listen and subscribe to Ask The Pastor in your favorite podcast feed. Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Stitcher, Amazon Music and most other podcast services.

This edition of Ask the Pastor features Pastors Adam Sanders, Colby Houchin, and Art Devos.

Art Devos
Hey, so welcome to the podcast. We're going to answer a couple more questions. We have four questions that we're going to tackle this month and we want to thank you for tuning in. My name is Art DeVos, I'm the executive director here at Camp Rock Ministries. To my right we have Colby Houchin again, who is the youth pastor at Monument Bible Church in Scottsbluff. And to my left here, we have somebody who is new and he's going to be floating in and out of this podcast as well. When Dan Terrell, who is not able to be here, then Adam is going to fill in and he'll fill in if I can't be here and he'll fill in. Basically, he's going to be a regular here as a part of our podcast as well. Looking forward

Adam Sanders
Looking forward to it.

Art Devos
Adam is the associate pastor at Harvest Valley Church. What's your official title?

Adam Sanders
Pastor of Families and Discipleship.

Art Devos
Alright, perfect. I was only on the search committee that helped bring him into the church. You think I would know this, but I don't claim to know everything unless it's with my children, then I know everything. Alright, so we're going to jump in. We're going to get started. Thank you again for tuning in. Let's get going. Gentlemen, how can you take a verse that some people take out of context and turn it around and teach them in the right context? Great question. Because we do live in a day and age where people love to post a random Bible verse and thinking it very much applies to their situation and how they want it applied to their situation. And so we see that a lot. It comes up in conversation from time to time. So how can we do this?

Colby Houchin
Yeah, I can get started. I think there's a lot of different avenues that this question can go. And so we could look at it from the perspective of how do we make sure that we aren't speaking out of context when we interpret scripture, we could talk about on social media, how do we address that or what about with friends or what about those types of situations? So there's a lot of different nuances to this question, but I think in general, one thing I want to just state beforehand; I think there's a lot that we can go back and forth, but just to start, what we encourage and what we call good biblical interpretation is of Jesus. It is looking for the intended meaning and the intended context of a verse. That's what we desire to see. Eisegesis is something that we see a lot in our culture, kind of what Art alluded to. And Eisegesis is when we're going to input our own meaning or our own biases or our own message within the text. And so often, and again, this is just a starting place, this isn't my answer, but often what we see in our culture is what we call Eisegesis. And so what we want to do is we want to pursue Exegesis. And so I can talk a little bit more in a minute about what that means, but do you guys have anything you want to say?

Art Devos
I think I'll add in, the starting point has to be scripture, right? The starting point has to be scripture. If you're going to talk about, "Hey, that's out of context," then you need to also know why it's out of context. What is the context where that passage is found? And to really be looking at that, and we can know that even whether it's something applied to daily living or just our spiritual health, all that in general. I want to start and just look at 1 Timothy 4:1. That's where, "now the spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron." And then it starts to go through a list and everything too. The context of that too is, you start to see people going further and further away from sound doctrine. And so we are supposed to test all things by scripture. And so when somebody is speaking just like we are today, even in a podcast, everything that we say; you should be able to come back to scripture and to say, "you know what? That's true and this is why it's true, because it's right here found in the Bible and we know that to be true." So testing it by what scripture has to say becomes very important. We then can start to understand why something that would be said would be taken out of context, whether it was an eisegesis form of interpretation or whether it's truly an exegetical form of interpretation.

Adam Sanders
Yeah, absolutely. I think, one thing that came to mind for me too, even thinking about this question a little more was just the posture that we have towards that person is going to say a lot. And I think I've thought of different scenarios where this could happen, whether it's a brother and sister in Christ or maybe even someone who's not a believer. But I wrote down a list of maybe just some assumptions we can start with as just the beginning point. And one of those, if it's a believer in Christ, we can assume that they love Jesus, they love God's word. The reason they're even going to this verse is because they want to study the Bible and they want to be faithful to what it's saying. And so we can kind of give them that benefit of the doubt. If it's a non-believer, we could even assume things like, "hey, if they're studying the scriptures or going to it, they probably have some interest." The Lord's working in their life. And so, want to approach them as someone who genuinely wants to know the truth. And from there with that posture, I think it helps a long way to teach it as a teachable moment. So you can go to them and say, "Hey, when we study a verse, we look at it within the context of the paragraph that we find it in." We look at what's happening in that particular book of the Bible. What are they addressing? What are the events that are happening? And we even use the entirety of scripture. If we see a pattern in scripture that would debunk that idea, then we know that that can't be what it means in this particular instance. And so just kind of walking someone through that, not only is it charitable, but if you're not doing it in a really smart way where you're trying to make them look bad, then you can really help them to understand more.

Colby Houchin
Yeah, absolutely. I think just going off a little bit what you were talking about, grand narrative of scripture is something that is incredibly important to understand in order to read verses in context. So for example, when you read the book of Proverbs, what you are reading at the beginning of the book, it's a speech between a father and a son of building up his son in righteousness and helping him walk a godly and disciplined life. And then you get all these little proverbs, all these little sayings, and I actually have a couple to talk about at a later question. But what you'll find in the book of Proverbs, you'll read these different Proverbs, and what you'll learn is they're not promises, but they are instruction for godly living. And so what you do is, you read the proverbs and you develop your wisdom based off of the word of God. And you will find that it's not a promise from God, because you read it in the proverb when it says that, I can't remember the exact quote, but when it talks about parents building their kids up in the way of righteousness, "they won't depart from that path." That's not a promise that's not--and so you'll see people utilizing that out of context and then they'll be like, "well, the word of God is not true because this didn't happen for my child." No, what it is is it points us in the right direction, which is to look at Christ and to understand who God is and to let our hearts be informed by Him. And so great narrative of scripture is one of the first steps to understanding context, because we're going to read Jeremiah differently than Proverbs, differently than Psalms. Differently than the Gospel of Matthew, differently than Revelation and differently from the book of Romans. And so you have to understand that. And then within that I think you have to start asking yourself good questions of who? Why? Those types of questions. And so for example, I don't mean to call anybody out here. I don't mean to pop anybody's bubble if they have a tattoo of this, or they have wall art or if it's on your Instagram bio. I'm sorry, but looking at verses such as Jeremiah 29:11 or Philippians 4:13. So Jeremiah 29:11, let see if I can find it here, "for I know the plans I have for you, declares the Lord, plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future." That is a really good billboard. That's a great: put it on a piece of wood, put it in your kitchen, right? It's really uplifting. The problem with that verse, when you even look one verse backwards at Jeremiah 29:10, you see, "this is what the Lord says: When 70 years are completed for Babylon, I will come to you and fulfill my good excuse, my promise to bring you back to this place." So, you don't get the whole context there, but when you read the book of Jeremiah and when you understand the history of Israel, what you understand is Jeremiah, at this point in his letter, is writing to a group of people that are either about to be put into very bad exile or are in exile because of their sinfulness and because of their godlessness for generation upon generation, upon generation. And so he's talking to a destroyed, hurt culture that has been dragged into slavery to a foreign land. And he's saying, at the end of this 70 years, your faithfulness, when you turn back to me, when you repent of your ways, I have a plan for you. You are my people. But it is not this like, "man, if I am raising my kids and I'm living my good Christian life, God has a good plan for me." There's a context there that we need to acknowledge. And it's kind of the same thing with Philippians 4:13. I should have flipped there a moment ago. Do either of you guys have that one memorized? I'm really bad with memorization.

Adam Sanders
I can do all things through Christ who gives me strength.

Colby Houchin
Yeah, or I can do all things through a verse taken out of context, right? It's the same thing. So the group of people that usually speak that, or that use that verse, often it's athletes. "I can do all things through Christ that gives me strength." "I can win the big game, I can score the most points, I can hit a home run. I can overcome my enemies." The problem with that is that Paul didn't write that after winning the church softball league. He wrote that while in prison. He wrote that he was suffering, he was in prison. He didn't know if he was going to die or if he was going to live. He addressed that if you read the entirety of Philippians, and he is trying to make a case for joy and hope in a joyless and hopeless situation. He's trying to point his church to living for Christ in everything that they do. And he's saying this beautiful message where, "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me." It is not in the context of, "if I believe in Jesus or if I work really hard, I can accomplish all of my goals." It is recognizing a dependency on the Holy Spirit and leaning into the plan that God has for me and recognizing that the hardships I'm in God can get me through. There's a different message in there than, "I'm an athlete and I can win if I do the right thing." And so, with context, we have to talk about who's writing this. What's happening during this time in history? Why are they writing it? Who are they writing this to? Another thing that I talk about is the 20/20 rule. This isn't perfect, but in order to get a better idea of what's happening in context, read 20 verses before and 20 verses after. And when you read that chunk instead of just one little verse, you'll actually be able to see kind of what's going on. And again, 20/20 isn't the perfect analogy. It's not saying that if you do that, you'll always understand the context. But that's a start in order to understand the broader message that's being had there.

Art Devos
And if you're a camper that's been out here in the last year, especially last two years, you would've heard, especially in the junior high core camp or high school senior camps, you would've heard us talking about this at some point in time. Because we are feeling more and more strongly about this idea that you have got to be taking these verses in context as they were meant to be taken in there. And though it might be difficult to figure out, sometimes you can, it's there. And so we teach a class at Co-op together along with Dan and stuff too, and we've talked a lot about just the idea that we've got to know the context of it, because otherwise it's so easy to start putting our own thoughts and our own efforts. And so we've established this right? That we believe the Bible to be true in its entirety and that we can know and look at God's word and to start to understand its authority, its purpose, and what it's actually pointing to and to be useful in our daily lives; godly living. But now to fully answer this question, and you started to talk about the posturing of it, how do you now approach that with someone? And so 1. make sure you do understand the context yourself; study up on it. I think that's going to be really important to know because you can't say, "I know that's out of context, but I don't know how," and then just leave it because that's not going to be helpful to you. It's not going to be helpful to them. So know why it's out of context. Understand the purpose of that. Now, it really depends on that relationship that you have with that person of how you can approach it. If it is a complete stranger, you're probably not going to change their mind and not really get very far in a conversation with them. If it is a close friend or even a family member---my grandmother, I had an amazing relationship with my grandmother. But every once in a while she would say things to me that I'd be like, "where? Help me out. Where does it say that?" And it was funny cause she would go, "well, I think it's in there." And so we would start exploring that a little bit and I got to explore the Bible even more with my grandmother at times, and to kind of help that out. But I had a special relationship. I could bring that up and a lot of times she would laugh about it as soon as we started speaking and she'd understand. But she still wanted to continue to grow in her knowledge because she was a believer. She understood, "alright, this is good for me and I want to keep learning. I want to keep growing." So yeah, it really depends on that relationship and how you approach it. But always approach it in love. Always.

Colby Houchin
So, something that comes to mind on that conversation when it comes to people online misusing scripture, or people that you don't have relationships with, it is very challenging to have fruitful conversations. But when we look at the church and when we look at the intended way for people to be built up, we see kind of how this process can be played out. So looking at Ephesians 4:11 and down. "So Christ himself gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and the teachers to equip his people for works of service so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining the whole measure of fullness of Christ." What that points to is the church being a place of knowledge and teaching and learning and growing and challenging. And where you come together, you have leaders of that church, but you also just have the body of that church, the diversity of the church that is unified around the gospel, that is unified around the good word of scripture. And what you do is you build yourself up. And then if you look at verse 14, it says, "they will no longer be infants tossed back and forth by the waves and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of people and their deceitful, scheming. Instead speaking the truth and love," which is huge in this conversation, "speaking the truth and love, we will grow to become in every respect the mature body of him who is the head that is Christ." This conversation is best had in the church, in loving relationships, in conversation with people that are mature, loving followers of Jesus Christ. And yes, you will find on Facebook that there's some really bad theology and there is, you'll find it and it can be really challenging. It can be really frustrating. Or you can find kids at your school that don't know how to use scripture well, or just use it as almost just like a hammer to bash on people's skulls. What we have to acknowledge is that the body of Christ is there to build each other up, and that is the place where we come together and we study the word and we build each other up and we equip each other for works of righteousness so that we aren't the infants being tossed back and forth by false teaching. But we are the rock that stands strong against those false teachings.

Adam Sanders
That really kind of butts up with the final thought I had in terms of the practicality of the conversation. I think it is important to note the nature of the misrepresentation or the misinterpretation. Because if it's a brother and sister in Christ, and maybe they're expressing something that is true. Like, the Bible does talk about it, but they're going to the wrong verse to get there. Then you could do what we've talked about already, but then maybe say, "Hey, look, these verses actually communicate that same idea." And so you can kind of affirm that they're trusting in something that is true and is good, but maybe then teach them, maybe they're in the wrong spot to get to that conclusion. The other thought I had is, if it's someone who's using scripture to justify sin, oftentimes what I've found is there's not really, the conversation is less about what the Bible says. Maybe they've kind of picked that verse because they still want to hold some respect to the Bible, but really the nature of the conversation goes beyond being able to interpret it well. And you might start by asking those questions and kind of getting into the exegetical component, but once they've kind of found that they have already stuck their feet in the ground and they want to believe this sin is okay, and they're just trying to put a nice little Bible verse on it. And once you get past that, I would say, start to ask more questions about them personally. Take personal interest in them. They're obviously, the Bible's not really at the core of what is going on there. It's a love for sin, and so you're kind of changing the nature of the conversation at that point.

What’s New in the Cross Reference Library? More New Novels by Melanie Dobson

Chateau of Secrets - Gisele Duchant has a secret. With Hitler’s army bearing down on Normandy, Gisele hides her brother and other resistance fighters in the tunnels underneath the Chateau d’Epines, her family’s medieval home. When the soldiers take over the chateau, Gisele is forced to share her beloved home with the enemy even as she continues harboring members of the French resistance right below their feet. Then her best friend—a Jewish woman—disappears, and Gisele risks everything to care for her friend’s child. When the Nazis begin to suspect her secrets, Gisele must work with an unlikely ally in an attempt to save herself and the life of this child.

Reeling from the deception of her fiance, Chloe Sauver leaves the United States for her family’s ancestral home in Normandy. A filmmaker, Riley Holtz, has uncovered a fascinating story about Jews serving in Hitler’s army and he travels to the Chateau d’Epines to interview Gisele’s granddaughter for his documentary. Chloe is floored—she doesn’t know the Nazis occupied her family’s home nor does she know what happened to her grandparents during World War II. As Chloe and Riley work together to unravel her family’s story, she is shocked by the secrets they find buried at the chateau…

The Christmas Bride - In 1754 two devout Moravians—a man and woman who’d never met—are chosen by lot to marry. Following their wedding, Christian and Susanna travel together with other newly married couples to establish a borough in Nazareth, Pennsylvania and share their faith with the surrounding Indian nations. Susanna’s heart warms toward her new husband even after she learns that he had wished to marry another woman. As war rages between the British and French Indians—and Moravians face a crisis that almost destroys their community—Christian must learn to forgive his past and love the bride that God has given. Only the hope found in the Christmas child can heal his faith and his family. 

About Author Melanie Dobson - Writing fiction is Melanie Dobson’s excuse to explore abandoned houses, travel to unique places, and spend hours reading old books and journals. The award-winning author of almost thirty books, Melanie enjoys stitching together both time-slip and historical stories including Memories of Glass, Catching the Wind, and her Legacy of Love series. Five of her books—including two Legacy of Love novels—have won Carol Awards for historical fiction. Melanie and her family live near Portland, Oregon.

Scriptures That Jesus Fulfilled

You can listen to Ask The Pastor every weekday at 9:00am MST on 97.1FM Hope Radio KCMI! You can also listen and subscribe to Ask The Pastor in your favorite podcast feed. Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Stitcher, Amazon Music and most other podcast services.

This edition of Ask the Pastor features Pastors Pastors Johnathan Hernandez and Gary Schick.

Garry Schick
It is Friday. A good Friday? Yes, and a great Friday. The Lord went through something horrific for us on this day.

Jonathan Hernandez
Yeah, wow!

Garry Schick
We have at Emanuel the Passion of the Christ tonight at 7:00. Not one for kids and not one for popcorn, but a very authentic---a movie showing of what Jesus really did. The whole movie, a couple hours long is those six hours on the cross pretty much. I mean, it starts actually with the trial. Well actually it starts in the Garden of Gethsemane, but it hones on pretty quick on what he--and leading up to the cross.

Jonathan Hernandez
Yeah.

Garry Schick
Hey Jonathan, as we are in just this really precious time, today, Good Friday. As listeners are listening, we're coming right up, well, at 9:00 is of course the time he was crucified, isn't it? Yeah. So from nine until three, he was on the cross. So today, maybe we'll just be a little less conversational than the last couple weeks, although we are going to still go back and forth just because we have kind of a lot we want to include today. We thought it would be a neat idea to talk about some of the scriptures that Jesus fulfilled when he died, buried, and rose again. And in fact, you may remember on Easter Sunday as the day's getting late, he appears to two on the way to Emmaus. And while they're going, they're confused, they're sad, they don't understand why Jesus is gone. And by the way, "it's been three days and some of our women had come up with this crazy story about him rising from the dead and we don't know what to think." And so before he reveals himself to them, he just opens up the scriptures and is beginning with the law and the prophets and the Psalms. And so we actually have a little bit from, and certainly not everything, but from the law, the prophets and the Psalm. And for just one verse from the law I've taken. We don't often think of Genesis as part of the law, but it is, it's part of the five books of Moses. It's the foundation of everything. And really a cornerstone, Genesis 3, that is when humankind falls into sin. That is when, not only death comes into the world, but also God's promise of a savior. We read in Genesis 3 as God is cursing Satan for leading Adam and Eve to sin. Verse 15, he says, "I will put enmity between you and the woman. Between your offspring and her offspring. He will bruise your head. You will strike his heel." Now, it's kind of a poetic thing, but literally Jesus, his heel is pierced and his hands as well, and Satan's head is ultimately crushed by what Jesus does. By the way, speaking of the movie, The Passion of the Christ, what I really love in that movie is while he's in the garden of Gethsemane, they show the serpent showing up, and Jesus just stamping on it. You got to wonder, what was Satan thinking? "I've got the victory. He's on the cross." No, you just lost Satan! He just paid the price for sin. And then moving to the Psalms, one of the most beautiful and heart wrenching Psalms is Psalm 22. When Jesus cried out from the cross, "my God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" It was a heart wrenching cry. It was that moment when God the Father and the Son, there's a division there because Jesus has our sin. But he is also quoting the Psalm, which is the Psalm that ends in triumph. "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me? Why are you so far from the words of my groaning?" And what a lesson to us, when we are going through our darkest hours, to cry out in prayer because guess what...our God is listening. But that's not where it ends. Psalm 22 has a lot more. If you move on to verse 14, it says, "I import out like water. All my bones are out of joint." I think we forget, when they hoisted him up on that cross, one of the things that would happen is that cross would fall into the hole that was dug for it to stand there. What would it do to Jesus? It would wrench his bones out of joint. "My heart is like wax." They're going to pierce his heart, aren't they? Verse 16, "A company of evil doers encircles me." Of course they did. They encircled him. They mocked him. "They have pierced my hands and feet." Well, actually, you are going to talk about that one, weren't you, Jonathan?

Jonathan Hernandez
Well, you already started.

Garry Schick
I'm sorry. But then in verse 17, he goes on and says, "I can count all my bones. They stare and they gloat over me." Were you going to take up verse 18? Why don't you take it? You got it?

Jonathan Hernandez
No, my phone didn't load.

Garry Schick
Okay, I've got it. I'll read it. "They divide my garments among them, and for my clothes, they cast lots." Of course this, they did even before they pierced him. So he was physically pierced, his hands and feet. They did gamble while he was hanging on the tree. They took his garments, the soldiers, and they gambled over them who gets what? So it's just some horrific things that Jesus suffered. But I guess what's comforting is it was all written down before it came to be. Not one thing did he suffer that was not in the foreknowledge and even the plan of God. Part of what he would endure out of great and deep love for us on this day. Alright, I think you're going to pick it up at Isaiah 53 from the prophet. So moving from the Psalms to the prophets.

Jonathan Hernandez
Yeah. So Isaiah 53:7 talks about, "he was oppressed and he was afflicted and yet he opened not his mouth; and he was led as a lamb to the slaughter and as a sheep before the shearer is silent. So he opened not his mouth." And what an amazing thing for him to be able to endure what he does. And not, I mean, in John 1:29 it says, "the next day John saw Jesus coming towards him and said, 'behold the lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world." You start seeing a lot of the stuff unfolding. You see him, like I said, walk through that whole process of being beaten, all of that. And yet it's like, "but yet you're God. You could have stopped all of this, right?" And yet He is like, "no, there's a purpose to all of this. There's a reason why all this is going on." Isaiah 53, where'd you go? 14. It says, "just as many were astonished at you. And so was more than any man in his form, more than the sons of man." This brutality of these soldiers, what they did to him. I don't know how they could do that to someone. Obviously, this was their job and I don't know if they enjoyed it or not, but it just wasn't good. And we know that this was, obviously, this is what had to have happened. God had the purpose. He knew what was going to happen, and He knew all that.

Garry Schick
Yeah, it's just absolutely amazing. Well, and they did enjoy it, unfortunately, because after they finished surging him, they took him in and beat him up some more. That wasn't part of what they had to do. But they mocked him. They put the robe on him and the crown of thorns.

Jonathan Hernandez
The crown of thorns.

Garry Schick
But you're right. And even Pilot was amazed. "Aren't you going to answer these charges?" And all of this is a fulfillment, as you said.

Jonathan Hernandez
Yeah, it's just crazy to look back at that and think about his willingness to do it because he knew the purpose.

Garry Schick
So the last one that I have is Psalm 16. And so most of what we've talked about so far is about what he endured on the cross, but the resurrection is there too. And in Psalm 16, it's a great chapter, but verse 10 says, "for you will not abandon my soul to Sheol or let your holy one see corruption." Well, who's David talking about there? David? And actually Peter points this out. I think he quotes this very verse in the book of Acts. He says, "we know that David is in the grave and his body was corrupted through the process of decay. Only Jesus Christ doesn't decay in the grave. Only Jesus Christ rises forever more." So I know it's good Friday and it's a mournful day. It's a somber day. It really is. Our day of atonement, when he paid the price for our sin. Saturday is kind of a solemn day. He was in the grave and talks about that too. He talks about, as Jonah was in the heart of the fish, that is a symbol. It's a real thing. It really happened. But it's also symbolic of the fact that Jesus would be in the tomb. But Easter morning, he will not be found there. And we tell the story every year about those women heading to the tomb, but they weren't coming to a sunrise service. They were coming to take better care of a corpse that had been hurriedly put in a grave. Was there anything further, Jonathan?

Jonathan Hernandez
Yeah, I mean, just you can look through each of these portions of scripture and these prophecies that were prophesied about the crucifixion; the resurrection in each of those, and just really spend some time in those. I mean, Psalms 22:18 about the garments being split. And then in John 19:24, the fulfillment as we see that happen. Isaiah 53, like you said, we could walk through each and every one through that, about him being oppressed and afflicted. And like I said, it's just amazing just how God has these things in the Old Testament. And then we see that fulfillment happen throughout some of these different events throughout the Bible.

Garry Schick
And Isaiah 53 even tells us the reason why, "all we like sheep have gone astray." Each of us has turned to his own way, and the Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all. Let's just take a moment to just give thanks for God's goodness, his mercy. Well, I just wish good things to you and your family during this special weekend.

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A Sneak Peak at Women @ Halftime - When you were just a little girl, some caring people may have asked, “Who do you want to be when you grow up? What do you dream about doing with your life?” And chances are, you had no shortage of answers. I want to be a teacher. I want to fly to the moon. I want to work with horses. I want to be president. I want to live in a castle. I want to be a doctor. I want to have lots of kids and live in the country. Dreaming was as natural to you as breathing. And yet, if another caring person were to ask you those questions today, the answers probably wouldn’t come so easily…Why is that? What happened between childhood and today? What happened to your dreams? Why is your dreamer turned off? It may be that you actually accomplished the dreams you had early in life. Perhaps you founded and ran a successful organization, had a fulfilling career, or raised children and are proud of the people they have become. Your dreamer is turned off because you feel you have nothing left to dream…Whatever the reasons may be, the dreams that came so easily to most of us in the first half of life now elude us. And yet, if we want to live a life of joy and purpose in our second half, we have to turn our dreamer back on.

Why Do Some Churches Teach God's Omniscience While Others Don't?

You can listen to Ask The Pastor every weekday at 9:00am MST on 97.1FM Hope Radio KCMI! You can also listen and subscribe to Ask The Pastor in your favorite podcast feed. Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Stitcher, Amazon Music and most other podcast services.

This edition of Ask the Pastor features Pastors Gary Hashley & Brad Kilthau

Gary Hashley
We are going to look at a thought that they want us to talk about and that says this, "often in some churches we hear about the omniscience of God. Yet in other Protestant churches it is taught that God is not omniscient. Rather he is learning as time moves on. Can you guys touch on this?" And yes, we can! Now you think about Jesus coming to earth and he did give up some of the independent use of some of his attributes. I mean, here Jesus was born and he wasn't born walking, talking, and potty trained. He did learn as he went along. The Bible says He grew in wisdom and in stature and in favor with God and men. But that is because he left heaven to become flesh. To dwell among us, never ceasing to be God, but in some way accepting the limitations as a little baby. And as a little toddler he learned to go to the bathroom, learned to feed himself, learn to clean himself, bathe himself, learn to talk, learn to read, and so on and so forth. It doesn't mean that God isn't and that he wasn't originally omniscient, because all three members of the Trinity Father, son Holy Spirit are as much God as the others are. What does omniscient mean? That might be a good place to start Brad. Omnis means "all," and scientia means "knowledge." So you put them together and it means "all knowledge." I think about God's omniscience. I think about a place in the scriptures like Psalm number 139, where David writes, "oh Lord, you have searched me and know me. You know my sitting down and my raising up. You understand my thoughts are far off. You comprehend my path and my lying down. You're acquainted with all my ways for there's not a word on my tongue, but behold oh Lord, you know it altogether. You have hedged me behind and before and laid your hand upon me. Such knowledge is too wonderful for me. I cannot attain it." So he starts out in this Psalm talking about God's knowledge; His omniscience. Then he goes on to God's presence; omnipresence, "where can I go from your spirit?" And it goes into that. But what do we mean by "-ence?" Let me give you the definition from the Moody Handbook of Theology. It says, "God knows all things factual and possible; past, present, and future in one eternal act." In other words, there's nothing God doesn't know already. There's nothing that God isn't aware of all the time and it's in one eternal act. I think that's an important phrase in that definition. It's not that His knowledge is progressing, it is, He already knows everything. He knows the past perfectly. I have experienced some of the past, but I haven't experienced all of the past. He knows all the past perfectly. He knows all the present perfectly. And there's a lot going on in every moment, and yet He's fully aware. He knows the future. I was thinking about that this week, Brad, as we were getting ready to record, because we're heading up to Easter. And I was thinking and reading this morning in particular, in my own time, in the Word of God from the Book of Luke about Jesus telling Peter, "you will deny me before the rooster crows." And Peter said, "no, I won't," and he had all kinds of arguments about it. But you continue reading and find out he did deny Jesus three times. As he's coming in the gate, the gal at the gate says, "aren't you one of the disciples?" "No," he goes to the fire. It's cold, and he decides to hang out there and warm himself by the fire. He's asked two more times, and after the third time he was asked, he denied being a follower of Jesus, denied even knowing Jesus. And my mom loved to point this out to me, because the last time it even says he "swore." And my mom would say, "now see, you're not supposed to say naughty things. You're not supposed to use profanity." The rooster crowed. Now, Jesus knew that Peter would deny him three times and he knew it would be right then before the rooster crowed. And it happened just like Jesus said, because he knew that that was going to happen before it happened. Now, Peter had the choice. He didn't have to wait for Peter to make a choice to know what Peter would do. There's a thought today called Open Theism out there that says, "God is waiting for Pastor Brad to make his choice. And then God says, 'oh yeah, that's what's going to happen. I knew that." But he's waiting for the choices to be made. He was waiting for Hitler to do what he did, or waiting for President Reagan to make a declaration that he would make. And that God is sitting back waiting for us to make up our minds so he can say, "oh, I knew that was going to happen." I really struggle with Open Theism, because God isn't waiting for me to make a decision for him to know what's going to happen. He already knows what is going to happen. So yeah, we have a God who perfectly knows the past, He knows the present, He knows the future. He knows the action. He does know the puzzle. He knows what I could choose, but He also knows what I will choose. Pastor Brad?

Brad Kilthau
I love how you started out, Gary, with Psalm 139 and you look at the words of David. And when you study Psalm 139, you find that David's words are not a theological study. They're his thoughts of who he has learned who God is, and what God's laid upon his heart of who God is. And he does the best that he can in describing, starting out there with the omniscience of God. And we find that we kind of find ourselves in the same place as David. I guess what I'm saying is, we can't fully grasp the omniscience of God, because our brains are too limited. But we can come up with a lot of things that we do know that are true from His word. And we find that He's acquainted with every detail in life of every being, and not just human beings. You got to think of all the creatures that he has created, and we're talking about every bug, every bird, everything. He knows everything about everything and he knows every being in heaven. He knows every being on earth and what's going on, and he knows even everything that's going on with every being in hell. As it says in Daniel 2, he knows what is in the darkness. And so, no wonder David said, "such knowledge is too wonderful for me." I can't obtain it. It's too high for me. But some of the things that you learn about God when you study His word is, of course, His knowledge is immeasurable and it's beyond human comprehension. So what does that mean, I guess, in everyday terms? Well, it means that he knows more about astrology than the greatest astrologer knows. He knows more about biology than the greatest biologist knows. He knows more about engineering than the greatest engineer does. He's beyond all of that. God never had to go to school. He never had to be taught anything.

Brad Kilthau
There are certain words that we know are not in God's vocabulary. God never says, "Wow!" It's not like I just learned something or anything like that that doesn't fit in His. He knows it. He knows it all. He doesn't have to string a bunch of logical things together to get the jist like we do. He knows the end, just as you already shared, Gary. He knows all of that. And so when we think about it, "who has the understanding of the mind of God?" as it says in Isaiah 40, "or instructed him as a counselor? Whom did the Lord consult or enlighten him? Who taught him knowledge or showed him the path of understanding?" Well, the answer is nobody. He knows it all. And again, I come back to what you shared about Open Theism where there's those who believe that God created the universe and then he just sits back and he sees how things are unfolding, and then he's learning from that. No, He already knows. He knows the end. Look at your Bible. He already wrote the story. You, again, come to prophecy and you find the omniscience of God. And again, how even when you go to the Old Testament. I think some of the things that are probably the best, is when you come to the time of Daniel, and he announced that King Cyrus was going to be this king that was going to rise up in a place of power. He said that through the prophet Daniel 150 years before it ever happened, and He gave the king a name. "King Cyrus is going to be his name." He gave David this image, this image that actually displays every world kingdom from the beginning to the end there. Of Daniel's time, all the way past our time when we get down to the feet and we see all the kingdoms of the world are represented that God already knows about. We know in Zachariah 9, as you're talking about coming into Easter, 500 years before it happened, he prophesied that Jesus was going to ride into Jerusalem, the Messiah, on a donkey. And it happened exactly the way God said that it shows His omniscience. And I think how we can relate to that is, maybe we can't wrap our mind around all the knowledge of God, obviously, but here's what we can think about. We can think about God as our judge and what better judge could we have? He knows everything. He knows our inside or outside. He knows every thought. He knows future. He was past. He knows it all. And so I say the greatest judge is our greatest judge. I'm happy that He is judging us when it comes to where we are and our relationship with Him. If it's true, if it's a personal faith that we really do believe in Him. I'm so thankful nobody's going to pull any wool over God's eyes. And I'm thankful that He is our eternal judge.

Gary Hashley
I hear people, excuse me, every once in a while, they may not say it right out, but they give you the impression that if God would just check with them, they have a better idea. If God would just ask them, they know how things should be turning out. And I think, what an arrogant thing that is. Anytime that would cross my mind that God ought to check with me, because if He'd have to check first I'd have given him a better suggestion on how to run His world. I had a guy come to me one time at first church I pastored and he says, "Pastor Gary, God is doing a lousy job of running His world." And basically what Marvin was saying was, "if God would just check with me, this would be better." But God is omniscient. We're not going to teach God anything. He is the one who already knows it all, which that throws a little concern in my heart because He knows when I'm going to fail him. He knows when I'm going to doubt Him. He knows when I'm going to willfully do something that he's told me to do and that ought to wake me up. The beautiful thing about that is, He still loves us in spite of knowing all those things. And that makes grace and mercy even more astounding.

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The (Young) Men We Need - What does it mean to be a real man? Our culture seems confused about that question and why it even matters. But God has made you for a type of manhood that will not only fulfill you but also benefit everyone around you—if you choose to pursue it. It’s not about being athletic or driving a big truck or getting rich (or getting girls. It’s much bigger and better than that. Funny, honest, and packed with wisdom, The (Young) Men We Need gives you a clear vision of what it means to be a man by showing why it’s crucial that you

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What's the Deal with Once Saved Always Saved?

You can listen to Ask The Pastor every weekday at 9:00am MST on 97.1FM Hope Radio KCMI! You can also listen and subscribe to Ask The Pastor in your favorite podcast feed. Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Stitcher, Amazon Music and most other podcast services.

This edition of Ask the Pastor features Pastors Gary Hashley and Brad Kilthau.

Gary Hashley
I have written in front of me, I did not come up with this question. It's come from elsewhere. It says, "what about eternal security?" There are different denominations with different teachings on this. There are those who are dogmatic---that once a person accepts Jesus as savior, there's no way for that person to ever be lost. And yet there are other Christians who state you can lose your salvation and must be re-saved or saved again or born again. I guess you might say, "what is with this?" That is really a topic that from the time I was a high schooler that was bantered about many times. I had a friend in high school who was a part of a church that did not hold to the security of the believer and the assurance of salvation, and he loved to get together and to talk about that. Actually, he loved to argue about that and I was young and I joined in the arguing about that, but the statement is true. There are some groups who, when they look at scripture, they come to the conclusion that a person could be saved today but maybe not still saved tomorrow or next week or next month or next year. I was part of a children's ministry in Michigan years and years ago, and one of the churches where I held daily vacation Bible school for several summers, it was a Baptist church. But the pastor was one who did not hold to the security of the believer, and he would go to people who maybe missed prayer meeting on Wednesday night a couple times in a row, and he would say, "you need to get back to church and you need to get saved again." He kind of used it as a threat. He used it as maybe a club of correction on people, and I'll tell you, there are times where I would say, "man, wouldn't it be nice if the Bible did teach that, because people would then maybe take serving Jesus and living for Jesus a little more seriously." I have said though in the past, that really if there are those who hold to eternal insecurity and those who hold to eternal security, and we each of us see someone whose lifestyle is one that's not of holiness, it's not of obedience that the normal pattern of their life is in sin and they don't seem to have any remorse, they don't seem to have any guilt in their lives. I've often said the concern is the same and that is this person needs Jesus. Now, they might say those who like my friend in high school might say, "yeah, that person was saved and has lost it and needs to get saved again." I would look and say, "I wonder if that person was ever really saved in the first place," whether they've ever truly been born again in the first place. So really, the concern is the same. If someone's life seems to cry out or clearly say, "I don't know Jesus." Our concern is, they need Jesus as their savior. I really feel bad for those who do not have an assurance of their salvation. I feel bad for those who day by day don't know, "if I had a car accident and were killed, if I were to have a heart attack and die, if I were to be swept away in a tornado on the prairies of Nebraska somewhere and be killed in that storm," they would say, "but I don't know, I would hope I would go to heaven, but I don't know." And I feel really bad, because the Bible does say we can know. 1 John 5:13 is a very favorite verse of mine to share at a time like this. The Apostle John says, "I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life." KNOW that you may have eternal life. The Bible says we can know it. How can we know it? Well, we can know it because the Bible says, "He who has the Son has life. He who does not have the son of God, does not have life." So if I have put my faith in the Lord Jesus Christ as my personal savior from sin according to scripture, I can know. Not hope, not wish, not think I'm on my way to heaven; that I'm a Christian, but I can know it for a fact. And so it is a critical thing. Now, there's a couple versions of belief about losing salvation. One is what I grew up hearing about churches, and that is, if you got saved this Sunday and sometime during this week you told a lie, you had a lustful thought, you broke the speed limit, you cheated on your income tax, whatever it might be that, "okay, you've lost it. Now you've got to get saved again." And I know of churches that, that is their position. And people are at the altar, usually there's boxes of tissue there because people are weeping. "I'm sorry Lord, I lost it last week. I want it back and accept Jesus is my savior again." Then there are others who say, "no, that's not what it is." But they believe that a person could intentionally say, "I have believed on Jesus as my savior before. I have decided I don't believe that anymore." And they call it apostate, and it's a willful rejection of what you say you had believed. And I struggle with either of those, because I believe that God not only saves us, but God keeps us. Doesn't mean I've lived a perfect life. Doesn't mean I haven't deserved for Him to scratch my name out of the book of life, but the fact is He saved me by His grace and mercy. He keeps me by His grace and His mercy. So Brad, I've been rambling. Why don't you pick up from there and share what the Lord has put on your heart today?

Brad Kilthau
Well, Gary, you shared that you have a favorite verse that you like to go to there. And first John---when you're talking about this subject to somebody. I've got a favorite chapter and it is John 10. John 10 has always been my theme chapter. It seems like as people go into ministry, they have something that the Lord just sinks deep in their heart and they hold onto that, and that's just kind of their foundation and their basis of ministry. And John 10 has always been that for me. And yeah, just flat out, I truly believe as I look at the word of God that once a person is saved, they are saved and they are forever saved. And it's not because I grew up in a certain church and it's not because I went to a certain Bible school, it's just because of what God laid on my heart, literally, from John chapter 10. And you come to that passage of scripture where Jesus is, he's in Solomon's Portico there in the temple courts, and of course the religious leaders have him cornered just like they always did. And they're trying to say, "well, if you're the Christ, then you tell us plainly." And then when Jesus gives an answer to that, not only does he tell him plainly that he is the Christ---that he is the son of living God---but in those words, he just gives this powerful, powerful truth about salvation and what it means. And of course, we're already looking at him as being the good shepherd in the previous verses and how he uses that analogy of the sheep folds and whatnot to teach about salvation. But when he gets to this point, he talks to these religious leaders and you get to verse 26 of chapter 10, and he says, "but you do not believe because you are not of my sheep. As I have said to you." Clearly showing that they're not part of the fold of the redeemed because they have failed to believe in Jesus and who he is.

Brad Kilthau
But then he goes on in verse 27, and this is where it gets really powerful. He said, "my sheep hear my voice and I know them and they follow me." And that kind of goes back to what you were saying, Gary, about a true believer walks with the Lord. It's part of us. We're a new creation in Christ. And that's what Jesus is saying. So it's not like we're talking about as a kid, you were sitting in the Sunday school class and somebody said, "do you want to pray the sinner's prayer?" And then all the kids raised their hand and said, "okay, I'll do that." And you joined in because all the other kids are. No, this is sincere. This is genuine total faith in Christ and his work. And Jesus said, "if that's true of you, you will follow me." It doesn't mean you're going to live a perfect life, but you're going to walk in the ways of the Lord because you're a new creation in Christ. But then he makes it very clear, he says in verse 28, "and I give them eternal life and they shall never perish. Neither shall anyone snatch them out of my hand." And he says, "my father who has given them to me is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of my father's hand. I and the Father are one." And I don't know if it could get any clearer than that. That is absolute security. And a couple of things that just really stand out to me is, first of all, one of the things is you see the double security that Jesus talks about there. He talks about us as a believer being in his hand. And then you have to ask the question, "well, who's bigger than Jesus to get us out of his hand?" No one. But then you could also see the picture where the Father wraps his hand around Jesus's hand and that double security that we see with the Father and with the Son. And so when you put this in clear understanding, I look at it as what Jesus is saying is this: He shares where the good shepherd gives us eternal life, but he also gives us eternal security. And we look at that, because when we look at our triune God: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. Jesus purchased our salvation. He paid for it all. The Father as we know, He promised it and is the Holy Spirit as we learn in other scripture too, that he seals us into the family of God. And so when you start putting that together again, that eternal security is powerful. And I think where some folks can fall---for what I believe is not the right teaching on this that they can lose their salvation---is they start to bring in some human reasoning to this. And I think some of the thought that goes into this is some people will believe, "well, my eternal security is based upon my performance." And that is not true. Our eternal security is based upon the promise of Jesus. In John 3:16, Jesus said, "if you believe in me, you have that gift, you will not perish." That's a promise that's off the lips of Jesus. It's not based upon our performance. It's not based upon us going to church, doing the good things, being benevolence and our giving and all of that. It's just based upon the promise of Jesus. And so when you look at that, we don't earn our salvation. We don't earn our way into heaven by good works. We know that from Ephesians 2:8-9. But we don't keep our salvation by good works either. It is totally based upon the blood of Christ. His work on the cross is based upon his promise. When he said, it's true, when we look at that, it's in Ephesians 2:8-9, "for by grace you've been saved through faith, not of yourselves. It's a gift of God, not of works lest anyone should boast." And then when you go to verse 10 of where a lot of folks don't go to, it says, "for we," Who's we? We're the church. We're the believers. "We are His workmanship created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them." Good works are important in the Christian's life. They're not important in the unbeliever, in the eyes of God. They're filthy rags in the eyes of God because they're done in our own effort. Good works as a believer, done with the right heart in the power of the Holy Spirit, become something precious. But in that sense, it's only because we're a new creation in Christ and we're seeking to please him. We're not seeking to keep our salvation by being a good person and never messing up. We're not saved by our works, and we can't keep our salvation by good works. It's only on the promise of Jesus. And just lovingly, I'll have to say this often to some folks, I'll have to say, "if your thought of salvation is ever based upon faith in Jesus, plus works equals salvation, you're not saved. Because you're saying that the work of Jesus wasn't enough. I've got to help you Jesus. And if you're not totally dependent and believing in Christ Jesus, you are not saved. And so you can't have that before. You can't have that after. It's not based upon our good works at any time. It's not based upon our feelings. Any of those things. It's always, always based upon the promise of Christ and his work.

Gary Hashley
I love the terminology Jesus used in John 3, born again. You must be born again. And you think about it. I didn't do anything to be born on November 16th, 1957, but I couldn't ever do anything to be unborn. I was born into the Hashley family. And no matter how many times I disappointed my parents, how many spankings I got growing up, I never ceased to be the son of Albert and June Hashley. And if I've been born again of the spirit of God according to John 3, then there's nothing I can do to get unborn. If there's nothing I do to be saved, how can I do something to become unsaved? So I love that born again statement Jesus used.

What's New in the Cross Reference Library? 100 Popular Questions about God and the Bible

The 100 Most Asked Questions About God and the Bible - Sometimes the truth can be hard to find. We live in an age where it only takes a few seconds to look up anything we want to know. But how reliable are the answers we get? S. Michael Houdmann and GotQuestions.org have cut through the confusion, answering even the hardest of questions with clarity, grace, and love for more than two decades. GotQuestions.org receives more than sixteen million visitors each month and is the most trusted, biblically grounded resource online. This book answers one hundred of the most frequently asked questions on the site in a compassionate, accessible, and straightforward manner, covering topics like:

• salvation and how we’re supposed to live

• heaven and the afterlife

• sex

• difficult passages in the Bible

• the end times

• and more

People have big questions, and the answers have real-world consequences. Here is the biblical truth we all need to better understand God, ourselves, and the world we live in. 

One of the BIG questions from the book: What does it mean to have the fear of God? 

For the unbeliever, the fear of God is the fear of the judgment of God and eternal death, which is eternal separation from God (Luke 12:5; Hebrews 10:31). For the believer, the fear of God is something much different. The believer’s fear is reverence of God. Hebrews 12:28-29 is a good description of this: “Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, let us be thankful, and so worship God acceptably with reverence and awe, for our ’God is a consuming fire.’” This reverence and awe are exactly what the fear of God means for Christians. This is the motivating factor for us to surrender to the Creator of the Universe. Proverbs 1:7declares, “The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge.” Until we understand who God is and develop a reverential fear of Him, we cannot have true wisdom. True wisdom comes only from understanding who God is and that He is holy, just, and righteous. Deuteronomy 10:12, 20-21 records, “And now, O Israel, what does the LORD your God ask of you but to fear the LORD your God, to walk in all his ways, to love him, to serve the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul. Fear the LORD your God and serve him. Hold fast to him and take your oaths in his name. He is your praise; he is your God, who performed for you those great and awesome wonders you saw with your own eyes.” The fear of God is the basis for our walking in His ways, serving Him, and, yes, loving Him. Some redefine the fear of God for believers to “respecting” Him. While respect is definitely included in the concept of fearing God, there is more to it than that. A biblical fear of God, for the believer, includes understanding how much God hates sin and fearing His judgment on sin—even in the life of a believer. Hebrews 12:5-11describes God’s discipline of the believer. While it is done in love (Hebrews 12:6), it is still a fearful thing. When we were children, our fear of discipline from our parents no doubt prevented some evil actions on our part. The same should be true in our relationship with God. We should fear His discipline, and therefore seek to live our lives in a way that pleases Him. Believers are not to be scared of God. We have no reason to be scared of Him. We have His promise that nothing can separate us from His love (Romans 8:38-39). We have His promise that He will never leave us or forsake us (Hebrews 13:5). Fearing God means having a reverence for Him that greatly impacts the way we live. The fear of God is respecting Him, obeying Him, submitting to His discipline, and worshiping Him in awe.

What Does the Bible Say About Being the Sons of God?

You can listen to Ask The Pastor every weekday at 9:00am MST on 97.1FM Hope Radio KCMI! You can also listen and subscribe to Ask The Pastor in your favorite podcast feed. Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Stitcher, Amazon Music and most other podcast services.

This edition of Ask the Pastor features Pastors Johnathan Hernandez and Garry Schick.

Garry Schick
So we have kind of an interesting question, another one from the banquet today about what the Bible says about being sons of God. This was fun for me, I hope it was for you too, digging just a little bit. I can't say that what I accomplished was comprehensive, but what it means from a biblical perspective to be "sons of God."

Jonathan Hernandez
So I guess, as we look at that thought, sons of God, the verse that popped up was Romans 8:14. And it says, "for all who are led by the spirit of God are sons of God." And if we keep going in verse 15 it says, "for you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the spirit of adoption as sons by whom we cry, Abba Father." So when I think of, sons of God, this is something that we have received through our salvation. We don't really see this term in the book of Romans until we get up to this. We don't see the, sons of God, term until we get to this point. And as we look at that, it tells us that we've received this adoption. And I think of that. We adopted our youngest son. And the moment that judge says, "he's now your son, he became a full heir of mine. There's nothing that I don't have, nothing that I have that he can't. He has all of my everything. He's right there with my own biological son, there's no difference between them. I look at them both as my full-blooded sons. And so, this is what we see now due to that adoption into Christ's family. We're full sons of God. We have full inheritance. There's nothing that God doesn't want to bless us with. And so when I think of that and I think of sons of God, that's the verse that definitely, right off the bat, pops up. I think sometimes as believers we get stuck in that slavery part. We're not willing to step into that adoption, and being free from our past life of sin. And so, that is a process. It's as easy as we think. I mean as easy as I guess it probably should be. Our carnal selves sometimes get in the way 90% of the time. God is saying, "Here, I've given you all of this. I am setting you free." But we keep looking back at that past life, and I think that's a big hangup for a lot of people. I mean, myself included, it was like, "wow, but I enjoy that." But I see and I hear it and I am seeing what the Bible says and what God is calling me to step into, but how do I step over that? And Jesus did that for us on the cross if we could just realize, "hey, we need to hand this over to him and step into what he has for us. And so even as a listener, if listeners' listening, they're like, "wow, that's me. That's me, Pastor John. I'm that person that's stuck in that past and I don't know how to step into that future with that." And I know for me a lot of it was that mentorship of my pastor and just sitting under him and listening to him. And him calling me and saying, "Hey, let's take that next step. Let's get into the word." And I mean, just getting washed by the word and just listening to the word as you're ; reading the word. Those are all great things to help you take that next step out of that life of sin and stepping into that fullness that he has for us to the new life in Christ.

Garry Schick
Well, I love that you tapped into the adoption model. Jesus is the only one who can, in the fullest sense, claim to be the son of God in a way that we never can, because he came from the Father. And yet part of what he did was make it possible for us also to become children of God. And maybe we just put this whole thing on a little bit of pause here to just also talk about the language we're using. The Greek word {"weo"} is, we translate it, sons of God or children of God. It is in Greek in the masculine plural, which is generic. Just like in the old days, an English man was a generic word for humankind, mankind. And woman was a specialized word for females/women. And so, just as English up until most of my life, the word man/men was actually a generic word for human beings. Woman was a very special word. Now there's gender inclusive language, but we got to find other ways to say it. But when we're talking about, "sons of God," we are talking about children of God. Male and female of whatever age. And so, some thoughts I had, just to tap into what you said though about adoption, we also are an adoptive family and we've adopted two. One internationally and one actually right here in this community. And it's kind of neat because for our son who we adopted out of country, he has obviously a birth certificate from where he was born. But when we adopted him, we were living in Minnesota. And as we brought him home and went through the legal process here, he also has a Minnesota birth certificate even though he wasn't born in the United States at all. And my wife and I on that certificate are listed as his biological parents. And the same thing with the child that we adopted here in this community, we are listed, it's not anything other than the birth mother and father. That is how seriously the state takes it that we have made a commitment to this child as our own. And you know how much more so the Lord. So a couple things real quick. How do we become children of God? John 1:12 tells us, "yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God." So of course Jesus says, "nobody can come to the Father unless he was called." God is calling us. We have a responsibility to respond to that call. And when we say yes to God's call, this is how fully he calls us his own. That's why I think we rightly both agreed at the banquet: once you're saved, it's not like you're getting get out of hell free pass that you could lose. You are becoming God's child and he looks at you, sins forgiven, clothed in the righteousness of Christ in the same way that He looks at Jesus. That's powerful. He loves us. In fact, that's why Jesus died. So that we could not merely become "okay, we went from following the laws of the ways of the world and sin. Now we're going to follow God's law." No, there is an aspect to that, but it's an outgrowth of being part of the family. It's not earning your way or keeping your place. In fact, Galatians chapter 3:26 says, "so in Christ you are all sons or children of God." Through faith, through faith in Christ, we receive the forgiveness of our sins and we receive that full adoption. And so, what does that mean? Well, 1 John 3:1-2, "see what great love the Father has bestowed on us, that we should be called sons of God. And that is what we are. The reason the world does not know us is it did not know Him. Dear friends, now we are sons of God and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we do know that when Christ appears we will be like him for we will see him as he is." And so, salvation is this beautiful thing. My past is forgiven. I'm working out that salvation in the present, becoming who I am in Christ. And it will be completed when I see him, because not just physically that we will receive resurrection bodies, but spiritually we will be completed. The old self at last, we will have shed. And there's some analogies we could make of that, but I mean I can't wait. I don't know about you, but it's like, well, it's a little bit like when I started eating healthier. It's really interesting. I barely ever drank water ever. I drank all kinds of soda and everything else but water that wasn't very good. Now water is what I want. It's not just, "I know it's good for me." My body has learned to crave it. And there's things, it's not that they don't taste good, it's just that I don't even want them anymore because I know it did nothing for me.

Garry Schick

And I think that's the part of it. I think we just grow more and more to see, yeah, there were some things about sin that were in some sense attractive to us, but it never brought us anything good. Not in any lasting way, maybe a few moments. And then there were the consequences. But you know what? The consequence of righteousness is life. It's joy, it's peace. And so, that's what we're shedding. We're shedding that which quenches joy and peace and hope and entering further and further into where it's really found. How do we know there's a question? How do we know that we are children of God? Well, have I accepted Christ right there? But Romans 8:16, just a couple of verses after the one that you mentioned, "the Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are sons of God," or children of God. So one of the things is, Jesus puts the Holy Spirit in our hearts. And actually, I've known people who in a way, they will question their salvation because, "oh, I sinned and I feel so terrible." I'm like, that's great! "What? That I sinned?" No, the fact that you feel terrible. It shows that God's spirit is making you. Before you knew Christ, how terrible did you feel about committing that sin? "Well, not that bad." See? If you weren't God's child, you wouldn't care. Or you would, but maybe like a child that got his hand caught in the cookie jar like, "oh, I'm so upset I got caught." Versus, "oh, I'm so upset because I got caught up in the sin rather than caught with the sin." There's a difference there. In Christ, you are going to gradually, sin will become more distasteful. It doesn't mean you're never going to commit it. Now, a day goes by that I don't have a thought, a word, something where I'm like, "oh Lord, forgive me and maybe forgive me to the person I'm talking to at the same time." But if you're in Christ, you want to grow to be more like him. And the spirit testifies that we are his. Galatians 4:6, "because you are his sons. God sent the spirit of his son into our hearts and the spirit calls out Abba Father," which also you mentioned in that Romans 8. So Abba is such a beautiful word. It's kind of similar to our English word, "daddy." It's a word of tenderness. My wife, she does not ever want to hear the word mother addressed to her by any of our children. "Mom," absolutely. When we're grandparents someday she wants us to be called Lolly and Pop. I don't know how we feel about that, how the kids feel about that. Lollipop? But mother, no, that formal word, she's not into it. I don't think I've ever heard my children call me father either. But Dad, yeah, I love it. I absolutely love it. It's a tender word. It's a close word, because this is what Jesus is open to us. This is what he's made possible. You've already mentioned Romans 8:14, "those who are led by the Spirit are children of God." But I think this shows us a little bit what it means to be a child of God. It means not that we are trying to earn our way through, but there is a new lead in our heart. And as we've already talked about, it's the Holy Spirit and he makes us uncomfortable when we start to wander and stray. Philippians 2:15, "so that you may become blameless and pure children of God without fault in a warped and crooked generation, then you will shine like stars in the universe." As we grow in Christ, it does show in our lives. Again, we're not living this way to earn our way, but because this becomes part of who we are in the world. And you see it all the time. Well, you can tell whose parents that child is because of: here are the characteristics. We see it in this family, or whatever. They're hopefully good characteristics. But you inwardly leave your imprint in who your kids are. They are completely themselves. They are 100% unique individuals. And yet they carry a certain demeanor out into life that says whose they are. And if that's true of our biological families, how much more in Christ? In fact, I want to close with this. What does this look like in the world? Matthew 5:9 says, "blessed are the peacemakers for they will be called children of God." Well, who's going to call them that? Those around them. And so I think there's a challenge to us Christians. Is that our reputation in the world? Is that the reputation of what it means to be a Bible believin', Jesus followin', God loving Christian? That we're peacemakers? I don't know about you. I've known some Christians. I'm not sure if that applies to. Or at least we have the label. But this is what it should look like. And so I don't know about you, but for me that's a challenge. Like, wow, boy, there's a lot of the old self in me that's not much of a peacemaker. But Jesus came to make peace between us and God. And where are we inviting others? Where are we ambassadors of that? We have peace with God? You can too.

Jonathan Hernandez

Definitely.

Garry Schick

I think we need, sometimes, to remind ourselves whose we are and therefore who we are and who we are becoming. And I know I brought us back to this before, but friends, pray, pray. Don't just say, pray that Lord's prayer because where does it begin? "Our Father," father and I know I've heard people say, "oh, we're all God's children." Well, yeah, God created all humankind. But there is a special and a very different sense in which if you are in Christ. He's more than just your Creator. A long time ago, many, many generations back. He is our father right now who's leading us and guiding us and through us bringing the kingdom, fulfilling His will. Providing for us every day, our daily bread, forgiving us and through us forgiving others. Guiding us and protecting us. And by the way, just summarize the Lord's prayer because that's what it's about, friends, pray it. Pray it definitely. And let it imprint in your heart who you are because you're God's kid. Alright, well, we don't know you, but as brother and sisters in Christ, we love you.

What’s New in the Cross Reference Library? New Novels by Melanie Dobson

What they’re about: 

Hidden Among the Stars - The year is 1938, and as Hitler’s troops sweep into Vienna, Austria Max Dornbach promises to help his Jewish friends hide their most valuable possessions from the Nazis, smuggling them to his family’s summer estate near the picturesque village of Hallstatt. He enlists the help of Annika Knopf, his childhood friend and the caretaker’s daughter, who is eager to help the man she’s loved her entire life. But when Max also brings Luzia Weiss, a young Jewish woman, to hide at the castle, it complicates Annika’s feelings and puts their entire plan—even their very lives—in jeopardy. Especially when the Nazis come to scour the estate and find both Luzia and the treasure gone. Eighty years later, Callie Randall is mostly content with her life, running a bookstore with her sister and reaching out into the world through her blog. Then she finds a cryptic list in an old edition of Bambi that connects her to Annika’s story…and possibly to the long-buried story of a dear friend. As she digs into the past, Callie must risk venturing outside the safe world she’s built for a chance at answers, adventure, and maybe even new love. 

The Wings of Poppy Pendleton - 1907. On the eve of her fifth birthday, Poppy Pendleton is tucked safely in her bed, listening to her parents entertain New York’s elite in their Thousand Islands castle. The next morning, she is gone, and her father is found dead in his smoking room. Desperate to find her daughter—or at least find out what happened to her—Amelia Pendleton struggles to move on with her devastated life. 1992. Though Chloe Ridell lives in the shadows of Poppy’s castle, now in ruins, she has little interest in the mystery that still captivates tourists and locals alike. She is focused on preserving the island she inherited from her grandparents and reviving their vintage candy shop. Until the day a girl named Emma shows up on Chloe’s doorstep, with few possessions, save a tattered scrapbook that connects her to the Pendleton family. When a reporter arrives at Chloe’s store, asking questions about her grandfather, Chloe decides to help him dig into a past she’d thought best left buried. The haunting truth about Poppy, they soon discover, could save Emma’s life, so Chloe and Logan must work together to investigate exactly what happened long ago on Koster Isle. 

What’s New in the Cross Reference Library? Characters That Keep the Faith

On Every Side by Karen Kingsbury - Everything is on the line…for Faith Evans, an up-and-coming newscaster. A woman of honor and integrity, who finds herself making a stand against the one man she never imagined would be her enemy…for Jordan Riley, a powerful attorney dedicated to fighting for human rights and against God. A man still reckoning with the boyhood loss of the three women who once meant everything to him…for Bethany, Pennsylvania, a small town no one ever dreamed would become the center of national attention. But it has. All because of a beloved, hundred-year-old statue of Jesus Christ that stands in Bethany’s park. A statue that some say is a clear violation of separation of church and state. A statue that has to come down. A statue that suddenly becomes the focus of a biter conflict—one rife with political intrigue, social injustice, and personal conflicts. Before it’s over, everything that Jordan and Faith and the town of Bethany stand for will be challenged. 

What Once Was Lost by Kim Vogel Sawyer - On a small Kansas farm, Christina Willems lovingly shepherds a group of poor and displaced individuals who count on her leadership and have come to see the Brambleville Asylum for the Poor as their home. But when a fire breaks out leaving the house uninhabitable, she must scramble to find shelter for all in her care, scattering her dear “family.” With no other option, Christina is forced to approach Levi Johnson, a reclusive mill owner, to take in a young blind boy named Tommy Kilgore. Levi agrees, with reluctance, but finds himself surprised by the bond that quickly grows between him and Tommy. As obstacles to repairing the farm pile up, Christina begins to wonder if she can fulfill the mission to which she’s dedicated her life. And when an old adversary challenges Christina, will she find an unlikely ally—or more—in the aloof Levi? Can Levi reconcile with the rejection that led to his hermit-like existence and open his heart to something more, especially a relationship with a loving God?

Please come in to the Cross Reference Library and check out these great novels about renewed faith in God and not losing hope when life gets hard.

What’s New in the Cross Reference Library? Becoming Mrs. Lewis by Patti Callahan

What it’s about: From New York Times bestselling author Patti Callahan comes an exquisite novel of Joy Davidman, the woman C.S. Lewis  called “my whole world.” When poet and writer Joy Davidman began writing letters to C.S. Lewis—known as Jack—she was looking for spiritual answers, not love. Love, after all, wasn’t holding  together her crumbling marriage. Everything about New Yorker Joy seemed ill-matched for an Oxford don and the beloved writer of Narnia, yet their minds bonded over their letters. Embarking on the adventure of her life, Joy traveled from America to England and back again, facing heartbreak and poverty, discovering friendship and faith, and against all odds, finding a love that even the threat of death couldn’t destroy. At once a fascinating historical novel and a glimpse into a writer’s life, Becoming Mrs. Lewis is above all a love story—a love of literature and ideas and a love between a husband and wife that, in the end, was not impossible at all. 

What I love about Becoming Mrs. Lewis: When I was 11 years old, my aunt gave me a beautiful box set of The Chronicles of Narnia for Christmas. As I began to read through those seven books, I fell in love with the world of Narnia. Talking animals and mythical creatures. A mighty lion. And children who stumble upon a magical land, and go on adventures when they least expect it. As I got older, I became interested in how C.S. Lewis created the world of Narnia. I wanted to know his story. So when I was around 13 years old, I came across a biography on C.S. Lewis in the local Dollar General. I was so excited when my mom let me get it, that I didn’t even wait till I was in the car to start reading it. I learned about his childhood, how he fought in The Great War. Did you know C.S. Lewis was close friends with J.R.R. Tolkien, the author of The Lord of the Rings? I remember reading through that biography so many times that the cover was worn. But something that I always wanted to know more about was his relationship with Joy Davidman. And that is exactly what Becoming Mrs. Lewis gave me. Her friendship with Jack (C.S. Lewis) was so inspiring to read about. This novel gave so much more depth to who Joy Davidman was, than my biography ever did. When she would ask Lewis about Narnia and other things, it’s like us as readers are learning about C.S. Lewis with Joy. Another one of my favorite things about this book, was how it was in a diary format. That really helps in experiencing everything through Joy Davidman’s eyes. In the author’s note in the back, Callahan talks about all the research she did in order to represent Joy’s story well. If you choose to check out this book, I recommend that you read the author’s note. It is truly fascinating. And the synopsis really describes this novel well when it says that it’s, “a love story—a love of literature and ideas and a love between a husband and wife that, in the end, was not impossible at all.” Come on in to the Cross Reference Library and check out Becoming Mrs. Lewis! You’ll find hope, faith, hardships, and of course JOY.

What Man Made Thing Is In Heaven?

You can listen to Ask The Pastor every weekday at 9:00am MST on 97.1FM Hope Radio KCMI! You can also listen and subscribe to Ask The Pastor in your favorite podcast feed. Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Stitcher, Amazon Music and most other podcast services.

This edition of Ask the Pastor features Pastors Johnathan Hernandez and Gary Schick.

Garry Schick
So listeners, for those of you who weren't there, we had kind of a unique experience last Thursday. Russ asked us to represent the different Ask the Pastor broadcasts by doing a standup live impromptu Ask the Pastor during the KCMI banquet. And so I said, "well, what a privilege!" And I'm like, "Russell, what question would you like us to tackle?" He's like, "no problem. We're just going to take questions from the audience. We're going to have them write them on cards, and you'll have about 30 minutes to figure out what to say." Oh my! Usually we have at least a day's notice to kind of think things through and figure it out. But actually, I had fun. Did you have fun with that?

Jonathan Hernandez
Yeah, I had fun.

Garry Schick
It's different when you can actually see the faces, and I just had fun watching you interact, Jonathan. Because I could just see, because I'm busy on Sunday mornings, you're busy on Sunday mornings, we never really see each other doing ministry. And I could just see your gifts coming out when I saw you, the way you addressed a crowd, I just thought it was great.

Jonathan Hernandez
Thank you. I was nervous.

Garry Schick
On the other hand, I was nervous too. I mean, I've been standing up in front of groups for a lot of years, but it's always different when it's not your group. I am always at home in my own church with my own people. Always glad to have some visitors there or whatever, but it is different when you're just kind of in a new venue, in a new way, doing a new thing. You don't really know who's out there and what they're looking for. And certainly some of them may have been looking for something in their questions.

Jonathan Hernandez
You never know.

Garry Schick
And then a miracle happened. Cause you know, it takes us usually about 25 minutes to get through a 15 minute broadcast on one question. How many questions did we go through in those 15 minutes?

Jonathan Hernandez
I would say at least six, seven, somewhere around that.

Garry Schick
Yeah, we got through a bunch of them. Truly, I think if we were kind of settled like we are here in the station today, we probably would've taken 15 minutes on any one of those. But, and I thought really that it went pretty well. In fact, my family did. I know they're unbiased.

Jonathan Hernandez
Yeah, it was an honor to be asked to be able to do something like that. And then, it's always an honor to be able to sit beside you, or stand beside you in that case. And it was so fun to do the questions together. Sometimes I feel like I'm maybe not hitting where I need to be. Then it's like you grab a hold of my slack and you finish. A lot of times you'll finish my thought because my brain might be racing too fast to go in a different direction already. And so I think everything just worked out great. We had a few people that came up afterwards and for me at least, and told me that we did a good job up there.

Garry Schick
You know, we apparently did. We survived. They haven't taken us off yet. Although our lives are so busy. We were just discussing this morning, we're not sure how long we can go with this, but we're going to keep trying for a little bit anyway. So anyway, but even though we did go through, I don't know how many questions, they handed us quite a stack. And what I love about it, and I kind of joked about it at the event, sometimes I kind of feel like Russ comes up with the questions on his own. Which is fine, but oh man, sometimes, where did he come up with this? I can honestly say the stack of questions in my hand actually came from, definitely listeners, in the audience and more than we could get to. And I promised them that we would carry them on into the show. And so today I have a question for us, and we kind of felt when we read it, this may be a trick question. I think this person already has the answer and wondering if we're going to figure it out. And so I'm going to read you guys the question folks, and Jonathan's going to take it up. I'm going to, but then I actually met the person who at the end, he came up to me and said, "did you get a question that said this?" Yeah, I did. And I told him, I said, "we kind of wondered if that was a trick." He's like, "no." But then he told me and I'm like, "oh yes." So there will be a reveal at the end of our broadcast today, what the listener's answer to the question was and why I feel like he's biblically right on target. But first, the question and then the different directions our minds would tend to go with it. Alright, are you ready? Here it is: What manmade thing is in heaven? Jonathan, we read that and we're like, "what manmade thing is in heaven? Come on, the Lord has made it all." But what are some thoughts that have come into your mind as you've pondered that question?

Jonathan Hernandez
Yeah, so when I first heard this, it was like, "well, God made everything right?" So, what would be in there? And then my mind kind of started going in some other directions and I was thinking, "okay, well, I don't know if you guys heard this phrase, but I remember hearing it actually in a Christian rap song and it says, "you'll never see a hearse pulling a U-Haul." So you're never going to bring all of your stuff with you to heaven if you get buried in a casket with your favorite necklace or whatever it may be. Those things are earthly, they stay here. They don't go with you to heaven. And so that's kind of where I started going a little bit with the question as I was just thinking of that question throughout that early, we had 15-20 minutes to think about questions. That's where my mind started going. Now I'm thinking, "okay, we could look at, well what manmade thing make it up there?" The Bible says, "don't store up for yourself treasures on earth, but store up for yourself the treasures in heaven." So what do we put? So how does that join together with this question? And so I started having all these different thoughts with that, and I was like, "well, when he's talking about that, it's not like he's telling us not to store up all this stuff because it's not going with us up to heaven, but what eternal things can we take to heaven and we can help lead people to Christ? We plant the seed, water the seed. Christ brings an increase, obviously. So are those part of it? Where's this question going? So that's kind of where I was all over the place with that. Well, and the obvious thing I think, just I guess if it was a snake, it would've bit me in that sense, because my mind just went right past it. And I'll let you go with the answer with that one. So that's kind of where I was going as I was thinking with that, with the question.

Garry Schick
But people have said things to you too, in terms of death and what happens to their body. So think about that a little bit too.

Jonathan Hernandez
I think a lot of that too is just the different religious beliefs from across the spectrum of all the different beliefs and where different things can happen. If I get buried with, I don't know, my favorite video game or something, I don't know.

Garry Schick
You see that in caskets. People put things in the caskets.

Jonathan Hernandez
Yeah. People put things in there, and in the sense they're expecting that to go with them up to heaven. If I take my favorite video game, what am I going to play it on anyways? So, if you're following with that thought process, you'd have to put everything in that casket that would allow you to play the video game.

Garry Schick
And a pretty good battery too.

Jonathan Hernandez
Yeah. So those things aren't really, it's not happening, right?

Garry Schick
It's a good challenge, because there's an old saying, "you can't take it with you." And yet people live their lives just kind of storing up, storing up, and storing up stuff in this world as if they could.

Jonathan Hernandez
Yeah, we sit on millions of dollars in the bank account, right? Well,

Garry Schick
Well, you might.

Jonathan Hernandez
I don't have that, but that's the mindset. I'm going to store up all of this stuff. But then, and I'm not saying that's wrong. You should have a little bit of a savings to help, but we save all this stuff, and when we die, we don't take that with us. Now, if we have it set up right for our families to be able to have that benefit of it, then great. But that's a whole other rabbit trail. So yeah, that's kind where I was going when I first thought this question, and then when the obvious hit me, I was like...

Garry Schick
Oh, it's not obvious for our listeners.

Jonathan Hernandez
Yeah. And so I'll let you go into that.

Garry Schick
But just to kind of dovetail off of what you said, the ancient Egyptians, absolutely. And not only the ancient Egyptians, but I mean there's a lot of different people groups who have had the concept of, 'taking it with you,' in fact. But the Egyptians probably took it to an extreme beyond anybody else. I mean, when the Pharaohs went into their tombs, they went in with ships, with slaves. Which, I don't know whether they were buried alive or dead, but they went in with them. They went in with food. In fact, I think it's been discovered. Yeah, I know it has. They have found jars of seed and honey in Egypt. And so this stuff so cool! It was buried over 3,000 years ago, and they take the seed out of the jar, plant it, and it still grows. They take the honey out of the jar, and it's still good because honey, I don't know if our listeners know this, it doesn't go bad. Not even 3000 years. I don't know if I personally want to taste 3,000 year old honey or not. That's been sitting in some pharaoh's tomb. But I don't know if somebody tasted it or they just scientifically analyzed it, but apparently honey doesn't attract, it doesn't decay, it doesn't go bad. So literally, they were trying to take it with them because they absolutely believed that they would need these things to supply them in the afterlife essentially. That you go into the afterlife, you take out what you brought in, and so they would try and bring a lot in with them. Conversely, Jesus has an interesting parable when there was a certain man who had a pretty good harvest one year. Remember this parable? And so much so, he didn't have room in his barns, so he built bigger barns. And so he built the bigger barns. He put away everything he got, and he said, "now I can rest at ease because I'm stored up. I'm ready for what is to come." And that night, the Lord took his life and said, "you fool! You have stored up treasures on earth, but you have nothing in heaven." And Jesus talks about, "do not store up treasures on earth where moth and rust destroy and thieves break in and steal, but store up yourself treasures in heaven." So I think that's where it was really good that you talked about the non-tangibles. You know, who we become in Christ, and C.S. Lewis talks about this. That basically every human being you meet, they're in a process of becoming---The people in heaven, the people in hell in one sense, they're exactly who you knew, but in another sense, they're not. Because I'm not who I was when I was a child. I have grown, I have changed. Well, we are either growing into something pretty wonderful, the new person in Christ in heaven, or without Christ, the diabolical being without God. That we will be whatever's left in that other place we don't want to decay into. But all of that aside, it also reminded me, going back to the idea of bringing physical things into heaven, of a joke I've heard. Have you heard this one? There was a man who shows up at the pearly gates, always St. Peter's there with the keys, and he's got a bag of gold with him. And Peter's like, "well, you can't bring that in here with you." And the man said, "oh, please Lord. I--" I don't know what the excuse was. So Peter goes, and he talks to the Lord about it. The Lord makes an exception. One of the angels is just shocked, "Peter, what is it that God is allowing this man to bring into heaven?" Peter says, "don't worry about it. It's just more paving stones." And not even that good of paving stones, because we know in Revelation it says that the streets not only will be paved of gold, but such a pure gold that it's transparent, which we can't even imagine that. Alright, so are we ready for the answer to the question? And is it biblical? So I was visiting with this person afterwards, and I'm like, "well, I don't know. What manmade thing will be in heaven?" And he looked at me and he said, "Jesus' scars. What he endured for us on the cross." And I think, well, we know that when we get to heaven, we're going to be healed, right? There can be no more sorrow, no more sickness. No more pain. So we're not going into heaven old and bent over, and cancer ridden and blind and deaf and missing limbs, all these. No, we're looking forward to a total, in fact, I remember a man in a former church that I served just kind of praising God as a friend of his. This is an old farmer. And he was talking about another farmer he knew who died, and it was kind of a tough death. It kind of took a while. And he kind of went through a lot in this world, but they'd been friends and they'd farmed together as side by side neighbors. And he just said, "praise God he is completely healed." We ask for healing on earth. And sometimes God does that, but sometimes the healing comes later. But it does come. But is it biblical to say that Jesus will have the scars in heaven? Well, I did have one scripture come to mind. And that is this one right here in Revelation 5:6. John says, "then I saw a lamb." That's of course, Jesus, "Looking as if it had been slain, standing in the center of the throne, encircled by the four living creatures and the elders." So when we see Jesus, he's going to appear in different ways. And of course in Revelation, he appears in a mighty way. A fearsome way at the very beginning where John just sort of falls at his feet before him. He's described as the Lion of Judah. He's described as a warrior coming on a white horse. But at least in one scene, he appears as a lamb who has been slain. So yeah. And of course it talks in Hebrews about how, when Jesus entered heaven, he entered the holiest place with his own blood to atone for our sin. So the blood of Christ, the body of Christ, the scars of Christ; he carries it. And they are badges of love for us. There's a verse, I think in Isaiah where he talks, "I have written your names in the palms of my hands." And I just equate that with the nails. Those scars that he, those sufferings that he endured for you and me. Friends, the only reason you and I are here today, Jonathan, on the radio, is because we want people so desperately to know how much God loves them. Whatever they've done, whatever they've been through, wherever they're at right now. Whatever you're addicted to, or doing wrong or whatever it is, it doesn't make those things that are messing up your life okay. They're not. And you know, they want a way out. Well, Jesus is the first step. He is the power that is greater than we. And he is ready to take you by the hand with a strong nail scar hand. He has paid the price for your sin. There is nothing you can or ever will do to wash it away, but he's done it. Just receive his gift. Receive that gift of new life. Ask him into your heart, ask his forgiveness and know that he receives you. And here's another question. Why are Christians called sons of God? I think maybe that would be our topic for next week, just to follow this one, because that's what you get to be. You get to be a child of God, forevermore by trusting Jesus. Jonathan, maybe as you lead us into prayer, maybe you could lead us into salvation prayer. Maybe there's somebody out there who's like, I am done trying to do it by myself. I need Christ not only to help me with my problems, but I need salvation. I need to receive Him as my savior and to ask him to do in my life what I haven't been able to get straight. And by the way, that's all of us. That's all of us. I'm a work in progress. Are you?

Jonathan Hernandez
Oh, yeah.

Garry Schick
If you don't believe us, ask our wives. Right? Yeah,

Jonathan Hernandez
Exactly.

Garry Schick
Oh yeah. We've been working on him for a long time. I'm so grateful for a good wife. She's so patient, and I'm really grateful for an awesome savior. Well, listeners, we hope that you've received Christ as your savior, and you're walking with him. By the way, don't be discouraged. We know you're not perfect yet. We're not either. Yeah, Jesus' salvation is what he did, what he's doing, and what he will bring to completion in that day when we are fully healed and not just embody, but in soul and spirit. Until then, wishing you a great and godly day.

How to Lead Someone to Christ (Part 3 of 4)

Transcribed from Sermons by Bruce Peterson at Grace Chapel in Scottsbluff, NE. The video of this sermon can be found by clicking this link.

For a printable list of the primary verses to use when sharing the Gospel via this method, click on this link.

iStock free download

Alright, we're in part three of, “How to lead someone to Christ”.

How do you do that? It's it's way easier than we think it is, but it requires some knowledge. 

There's four basic steps to going through the Gospel. I have a list of these steps and the verses I use in each to lead someone to Christ.

You can click on this link for a list which includes the entire verses, but here’s a list with just the references:

1) Be Holy

Hebrews 12:14; 1 Peter 1:14-16; Romans 3:9-20; Hebrews 4:12-13

2) Judgment is Coming

Revelation 20:11-15

3) What God did through Jesus

Colossians 2:9-15; Romans 3:21-25b; 1 John 2:1-2; Hebrews 10:11-18

4) How I Make the Work of Jesus Count for Me

Ephesians 2:1-9; Romans 4:4-8; Romans 6:23; John 3:16-18; John 3:35-36

5) Bonus: What Happens When I Believe

Romans 5:1-5; Romans 8:1-4; Romans 8:15-17; Romans 8:31-39

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Or discussion about the Gospel at the end of the book of Revelation is of course triggered by these verses—Revelation 20:11-15—so let's read these verses again and get us all on the same page.

Revelation 20:11-15 (NIV)

Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

This is the Great White Throne Judgment, when the age of humans in this life, on this globe, in this way, is over. It ends in a moment when God pulls the plug; when he decides time is up.

I suspect that is when he has “wrung out” of humanity everyone who will follow him.

If you listen through the Book of Revelation, he is wringing it out—getting every last drop out—of the rag. He is getting the very last human onto team Jesus that he can. Then, it’ll be over in a moment.

So, in a single moment of time, God is going to end human history, but not before it gets terribly dramatic because he's going to do some wringing. But when it's over, all of humanity, every human, will stand before God. Every human.

And that's a weighty time.

Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life.

This is one of the key verses that I start witnessing with because it's dramatic. Everyone's going to stand before God and notice that there are books—plural—and then a single book and those are radically different.

and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

“God’s heart for us is full of grace. When we know and understand that about His heart, we see His grace in how He interacts with us and in what He tells us in the Bible.”

— Amanda Hovseth

Let me say this about the Book of Revelation: we can see this passage as judgment. It is a judgment scene. But here's the beautiful thing about understanding the heart of God, it is absolute Grace.

The fact that this passage is even in the Bible…not having people know that judgment's coming…that would be that would be like, “Oh, surprise! You’ve now got to answer for your life.”

That would be a bad surprise.

A good God; a loving God, is going to say, “Listen, this day is coming. I don't want you to have books, I want your name in The Book of Life. I have done everything I can. I have sent my son. He paid the price. I had the end times happen. I wrung people out. I had churches on every corner. I had your grandma know the truth. I have done what I can. I have done it.”

By putting it in there God is saying, “Get your name in The Book of Life, do it now! Don't wait. You don't know when a bus is coming that you don't see. Get your name in The Book of Life.”

That is a good thing, that's a good God, it's not just put in to be a judgment scene.

---

So, this is week three and here's the movements I take when evangelizing—when I lead someone to Christ; help them to become born again:

1) Start with the problem.

The Problem: We have to be holy. You're not holy. No one's holy.

You take this passage—Revelation 20—and you bring it to bear on their life. Stay with the problem, focus on the problem. What's the problem? Be holy. Jesus said that; Peter said it; the Law said it; it's all over the Bible. Be holy. You're not holy.

When Jesus was asked, “What's the most important thing I should know?” He answered, “Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, and mind; and love your neighbor as yourself.”

Destroy the person you're talking to with those two laws. No one you will ever talk to loves the Lord their God with all their heart, soul, and mind. No one, not you, and you're a Believer. Not me, and I'm a pastor. Who loves God with all their mind? You don't. Your mind doesn't go to bad places ever?

Ever love with all your heart? No. With all your passion—everything you are? No.

With all your soul? No. With your whole being—your money, your time, your energy? No.

You should love God above all and always and with all your mind.

No one does that. We might do it for milliseconds and then we're lost.

And, no one loves their neighbors more than themselves.

istockphoto-TonyBaggett

The guy even asked Jesus who’s your neighbor? Like he was thinking, “I love some of my neighbors.”

Then Jesus told the story of the Good Samaritan which teaches that every person in the world who has a need is your neighbor. That was Jesus’ answer, treat whoever needs a neighbor as if they were your neighbor. So, all the needy people of the world.

But, we do not give up our cars for them. We do not cut our celery in half and give half to them and half to ourselves. We don't. We just don't love people like we love ourselves. Most of us, when there's a tiny bit of ice cream left in the freezer, we make sure we eat it so even our children don’t get the last bowl. That's how we don't love our neighbors as ourselves. We don't even love our children as ourselves.

And I'll tell you this, if my kid gets cancer and your kid gets cancer, you will care more about yours than you care about mine. That's just the truth of it.

Point One: is to wreck them.

---

2) Explain the consequence to the problem.

They're going to stand before God. They're going to answer for their lives. And if they go into that experience and they're counting on their own goodness to get them through, they're done.

Don't let them think that they can go stand before God and their life is going to save them. Their life is going to wreck them. There's an angel who is writing down every single thing we think say or do—including motives—that doesn't measure up. Don't relent on this truth.

You put the weight of holiness squarely on their shoulders—just the weight of holiness.

“You’re not the judge, you are warning them about the coming judgement. You are not the judge, be careful, that’s a big distinction.”

— Bruce Peterson

Don't bring up their own personal sins, you'll just build a wall between you with those. Talk about your sins. Talk about humanity in general. Talk about how no one does it right. Don't go, “Oh, well you're a thief and you're a drunk and you're…” Don't do that. You'll just alienate them. That turns you into their judge, but you’re not the judge, you’re warning them about a judgment which is coming. You’re not the judge, be careful, there's a big distinction.

Put the weight of holiness on them and they will beg for mercy and they will ask for the solution.

---

Then, here's the beautiful thing, here is the grace of God.

3) Take the weight off of them.

Take all of the weight, all their guilt, all their shame, all their sin, and you just pick it up and you carry it over here and you set it squarely on the shoulders of Jesus. Jesus is the hero. Jesus is the solution.

Because of the great love of God, He sent a Savior: the Lamb.

John 1:29 (ESV)

“The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, ‘Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!’”

You show how huge and glorious the sacrifice of Jesus is. You honor Jesus with the credit do Him and the victory that He won. He conquered the books. It’s just amazing. 

“Salvation”by Ron DiCianni

Paul says Jesus took everything that stood against you— all your legal indebtedness (that's the books) and he nailed it to the cross. God the Father nailed your books to the cross his son died on. What a profound profound love of God. God loves you so much that he took all your books—all your thoughts, all your motives, all your laziness, all of it and he nailed it to his son. Wow! The love of God and the grace of God, it just doesn't get bigger than that.

Make Jesus the hero that He is. Give them the weight of holiness and then take that and put it on Jesus. Jesus can handle it. He can handle the weight of holiness. He is the only holy sacrifice. He is the only pleasing sacrifice. God was satisfied with the death of his son for us.

All your sin, yes, the secret ones, yes, the really terrible ones, yes, even Hitler's sin, yes, all of Hitler's sin was paid for on the cross. That doesn't mean he's in heaven but he might be, who knows. If I can go to Heaven, anyone can go. Because Jesus said hatred is equal to murder and thinking about somebody sexually is equal to adultery. Well then, you are terrible. You're a cheating, lustful, murderer. Savage is what you are.

And greed is equal to idolatry. If you don't love your neighbors as you love yourself—which none of us do because we’re greedy—so we're all idolatrous. And we're all adulterers. And we are all murderers, every one of us.

And Jesus loves us so much that he said, “Give it to me. I will pay it. And I will give you my robes of righteousness so that when you stand before God you have no books.” You will literally stand before God clothed in the holiness of Jesus.

Move the weight of holiness from them to Jesus.

---

I haven't told this story in a while, but I'll tell it again.

Landon Franklin, if you're listening this is for you buddy.

Way back in youth group I was teaching these exact same verses 20 plus years ago in my old house. And what I do when I'm teaching Junior High, I say, “Who will volunteer to let me witness to them, so you guys can actually watch me do it.”

Landon goes, “Oh, I'll do it.”

He wasn't saved so I was like, “Oh, that's perfect!”

That's what I try to get to happen. I'm going to actually witness to somebody even though they think I'm only practicing and the youth group watches.

Celebration Painting by Priti Gokani | Saatchi Art

So, Landon volunteers, he might have been around 8th grade, so he is old enough to be bad enough to care. And we get to this point where I take the weight off them an put it on Christ. He literally started crying and he got out of his chair and was jumping up and down and he said, “The weight is gone! The weight is gone! I'm free!”

He was literally celebrating in my living room in front of his peers, saying, “Wow! that was amazing news!”

It's not that dramatic to everyone, but that happens. It is a dramatic truth. If I see my real guilt before God and then I finally see Jesus as taking all of the guilt—it's a huge thing.

We sing a song called “Your Great Name” by Natalie Grant:

“The Lost are saved they find their way at the sound of Your Great Name. All condemned feel no shame at the sound of Your Great Name. Every fear has no place at the sound of Your Great Name. Jesus, worthy is the Lamb that was slain for us, the Son of God and man. You are high and lifted up that all the world will praise Your Great Name. All the weak they find their strength at the sound of Your Great Name. Hungry Souls receive grace at the sound of Your Great Name.”

You have a profound Savior.

The lost of this world are loved dearly by God. Jesus loves every one of them and paid as much for them as he paid for anyone.

And he entrusted—this is all over the Bible—you’re ambassadors for Christ.

Peter said in 1 Peter 2:9 (NIV):

But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s special possession, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light.

Here's your one job according to Peter: that you might declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness.

If you can't elaborate on the awesomeness of Jesus, what are you doing? Are you asleep? This is a profound truth and it's right there on these papers. Memorize those verses, memorize them!

“You should be able to spew for hours what Jesus has done for you.”

— Bruce Peterson

You should be able to spew for hours what Jesus has done for you.

Sometimes if you just talk about what Jesus has done for you enough someone might say to you, “I want some of that. I want some of that.”

But mostly when you share the Gospel you're going to start with the problem. You're going to say something like, “Hey do you know the confidence I have before God? I know for sure I'm going to heaven when I die. You might think I'm crazy. But. can I tell you why I have that confidence?”

Then put it on yourself:

• “I used to be…

• “I never loved God the way I should…

• “I am guilty of…

You can talk about yourself. They'll understand what you're doing.

Then get to Jesus. You should be able to spew about Jesus for hours. He's amazing.

But, if you stop there your person may or may not be saved and you might give them the impression that it means Jesus paid for everyone’s sin; therefore, everyone is saved.

Which is not true. You have to appropriate Jesus’ payment for yourself.

---

4) Tell them how the work of Jesus can count for them.

How does Jesus's death to count for you? Would you like credit for Jesus? Would you like Jesus to be your holiness? Would you like him to answer for your sin instead of you? Yes? Okay, so this is the issue of Faith.

It's time to move them to the place where you're going to offer salvation to them and see if they want it.

They might go, “I'm still counting on myself. I really don't think I need it.”

Where would you go to if they did that? Back to number one. “Explain that to me. What exactly are you counting on?” Take them back to number one.

But, if they do want to move forward to learn about salvation, they have to learn that we get salvation by faith.

So, here's the verses we're going to look at and they're amazing verses each in their own right. You should know them. They are classic salvation verses. If I’m going to explain the Gospel there’s just literally no way I’m not referencing these verses. It’s just critical “bread and butter” Gospel presentation verses.

“I will literally say again, “As we read these verses what I want you to notice is how much work you do versus how much work God does. Okay?””

— Bruce Peterson

I will literally say again, “As we read these verses what I want you to notice is how much work you do versus how much work God does. Okay?”

I want them to see how much their life matters in the situation.

I'll just go slowly with them, read the verses and explain them as we go.

Verses don’t speak for themselves. People don’t automatically understand them. There’s words in the Bible they won’t understand. They don’t understand what “grace” is, what “righteousness” is, what “justification” is. 

You have to explain those words in the context of the Bible.

I’ll start with Ephesians.

Ephesians 2:1-9 (NIV):

As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath. But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast.

Let’s break it down.

“As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins..”

Again, I'll ask: What are you doing? You're sinning.

Are you alive or dead? You're dead, obviously, spiritually dead.

When you were far from God and just not caring, living your own life doing whatever you wanted, that's where we start. What are you doing? Sinning.

As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath.

Who's a sinner? All of us.

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Now let me, for theology's sake, clear something up. When you get saved you are no longer a sinner, you're now a saint. The New Testament does not call us sinners; God does not refer to believers as sinners, not all of us as a group. We aren't all still in that category, some of us have been saved. I'm not a sinner. Sinners have books. I don't have books. My name's in The Book of Life. I don't have sin. I am righteous. I am holy and blameless, that's who I am. If you're a believer you are holy and blameless.

Hebrews 8:12 (NIV) 

“For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more.”

That's a promise. You are holy and blameless. Christ is my righteousness.

Now, do I sin? Yes, oh yeah. I'm good at it too. I like it most of the time. Yeah, I can be honest. I sin, God loves me anyhow. I sin, that doesn't keep me from a relationship with God. I sin all the time, all the time.

Again, I will say I don't think humans have a moment in time when they are not sinning. Because, I am never outside of myself, and; therefore, I'm guilty of my own greed all the time. I don't have to be in the moment where I ignore someone who needs my help, that's just a moment. But, our shortcomings don’t just exist in the moment when we act on them, we're never free of our shortcomings.

We just fall short, but as believers, we're not sinners.

That's Grace. We get credit for Jesus. Real credit that really matters. God doesn't see me as a sinner.

God does see me as needing to grow, needing to mature. I have a long way to go. I don't look like Christ yet and he's building me into the image of Christ. I fall short of that every moment in my life and I always will, even though I can make progress. Growing is a key part of the process, but as believers we're not sinners.

Everyone starts as a sinner, everyone, all of us start there. All of us lived among them at one time gratifying the cravings of our flesh, following its desires and thoughts. That's just saying, you do what you want to do.

What is the governing rule of your life? How do you decide to spend your money? On what you want?

You do what you want; we call that sin.

That's what Adam and Eve did and it has never stopped. People do what they want. It's a problem. We're supposed to do what God wants. If you don't do what God wants every time, it’s sin.

It's a lot of sin, yes it is. We were, by nature, objects of wrath. It's a bad place to be.

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Back to Ephesians 2:1-9, what have we done so far? Sin. That's all we've done.

Look at look at what Paul says next: 

But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions

Where are we? Dead in our transgressions—our sins.

What have we done so far? Sin, that's all.

What did God do? He made you alive with Christ, while you were a sinner. Not after you clean yourself up. Not after you repent. Not after you change. Not after you make some great vow or make some great pilgrimage. No, that’s all nonsense. It’s not what God says. God says, while you were doing nothing, you weren't even born yet, Jesus came and paid your price. God who knows the future tallied up your life. God already tallied your debt.

Why? Because of his great love for you.

This sounds like point two but it ends up in point three:

But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved.

You're saved. It's grace. You can't earn it and you don't deserve it. According to God you're just sinning.

it is by grace you have been saved. And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus

What did you do in that verse? Nothing.

What are you doing so far? Sinning.

What is God doing so far? He made you alive with Christ. He paid your debt. He raised you up and seated you with Jesus in the Heavenly Realms.

God's done all that and what have you done? Sin.

Hmmm…seems a little unfair, doesn't it?

in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus.

Why did God do that while you were just rebelling and sinning? Because he wants to be the hero. He wants to show off his love. He wants to show off the victory of Jesus. He wants to brag about Jesus in the age to come. He doesn't want to brag about you, he wants to brag about Jesus. So, he did it while you needed help.

For it is by grace you have been saved,

Here it is, step three:

through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast.

You get no credit. As a matter of fact you can only take credit for sin. While you were sinning God did all this work. All this work is amazing and it's all final and complete.

“Salvation” Artwork By Ron Dicianni

How do you get it? Through faith.

Don't look inside yourself, look outside. You are not your help. The help is not inside of you, it’s external, it’s Jesus.

You're not the hero in your own story; you are not your own salvation. You do not earn your own standing before God.

God, who loves you, is offering you a gift.

What is the gift? Salvation.

What are you being saved from? Your own books.

How do you get it? By grace, which is something amazing that you don't deserve. You get it by accepting it. You can use whatever word you want: “believe”, “trust”, “accept”, “follow “Jesus. Those are all synonymous. Just believe it.

The Gospel isn't magic words, you have to understand the process.

You're guilty.——> You're going to stand before God.——> Jesus loves you, so he took your debt and paid it because you can't.——> Jesus offers that payment as a gift to you.——> Do you want it?

If you did a good job at painting Jesus big, they're going to want it. They might jump up and down, they actually might

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Now for the next verse on your handout:

Romans 4:4-8 (NIV)

Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness. David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the one to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:

“Blessed are those whose transgressions are forgiven, whose sins are covered. Blessed is the one whose sin the Lord will never count against them.”

Starting at the begining:

Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation.

This one's easy to explain.

You go to work. At the end of the day, when you get your paycheck, can your boss claim it was a gift? No, he owes it to you. It's not a gift.

God understands that and he's explaining that to us so that we know he understands it so that when he uses the word “gift” we know he means gift. He’s not saying, “If you earn it, I'm going to give it to you, but it's really good so I'm going to call it a gift even though you deserve it.”

No, no, no. God's going to say, “Listen, I know what a gift means and we all know what a gift means: wages are not a gift, they're a debt you owe me. I did the work, pay up.”

However, to the one who does not work…

The one who does not do what God wants—what do we call that? Sin. That's what it is called.

So, what is this person doing? Sinning.

However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly,

“Justified” is probably the best word in the Bible. It means “to be declared innocent”. It's a legal term in Paul's day—to be declared innocent.

It's a ridiculous idea that God will look at me and declare me innocent of what I've actually done. I'm guilty. I'll plead guilty. I’ll throw myself on the mercy of the court. I am guilty.

And God will go, “No, you're not; you're not guilty. Stop doubting me, Bruce. You're not guilty, you're innocent. Jesus became your sin and—when you accepted it—you became his righteousness.”

Jesus is guilty of those sins. That's why sinning is so gross, because I literally make Jesus guilty of that.

And, yeah, he already paid it. I get it. And I won't have to pay it. But, do I want to see Jesus doing the things I'm imagining doing?

Remember:

to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly,

What are we doing? We're doing the ungodly stuff.

What is God doing? Declaring us innocent.

Of what? everything that's ungodly.

That's ridiculous, I know.

their faith is credited as righteousness.

Faith is credited=counted as goodness. Your faith is counted as perfection.

What are you actually doing with your behavior? Sin.

But you've accepted the payment—which is a massive gift—and by accepting it, you now stand in Christ and everything here in Christ is righteous.

However, to the one who does not work…

All they're going to do is trust that God will declare them innocent and declare them righteous.

Would you like that? Would you like to be innocent?

If you're innocent, can you have books in Heaven with all your sins written in them which you will have to give account for some day? No, you cannot. You cannot have books and be innocent. You can't have both. so you either have books or your name's in The Book of Life.

Would you like to have your name written down in the Book of Life? How would you love that? Yes, I would like that very much.

David says the same thing when he speaks of “the blessedness of the one to whom God credits righteousness apart from works.” David even had a clue about this message of grace because David sinned badly and God let him off the hook and David's like, “Wait a minute…that's not how this thing's supposed to work…?”

David gets a glimpse into Grace and here's what David writes:

Psalm 32:1-2a (NIV)

Blessed is the one whose transgressions are forgiven, whose sins are covered. Blessed is the one whose sin the LORD does not count against them…

How would you like to not have any of your sin count against you? What do you have to do?

…to the one who does not work but trusts God…

That's it. Accept the gift. Would you like to accept the gift?

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Let me read you some more verses so that you don't think I'm just cherry picking. I'll actually say those words, “Let me show you some more…let me keep showing you more…”

Romans 6:23 (NIV)

For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

It doesn't get clearer…or it doesn't get more succinct, rather.

You sin. It's getting written down. You're going to stand before God, which means trouble (death) for you. God doesn't want you in trouble because he loves you. So, the gift of God is eternal life, not eternal death—eternal life.

Would you like to go from death To life? It's a gift from God.

Would you like this gift?

“The gift is: You can stand before God innocent of your guilt.”

— Bruce Peterson

If I were going to offer you a gift, what would you have to do to make it your own? You'd have to put your hands out. You'd have to receive it. You'd have to accept it. You'd have to trust it. You'd have to believe me. Whatever word you want to use, God is offering you a gift today.

The gift is: He will take the weight of Holiness off of you and he will put it on Jesus and that payment will count for you. You can stand before God innocent of your guilt.

That's a good gift.

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John 3:16-18 (NIV)

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

I'll try to put their name in there as I read these verses:

For God so loved Kim that he gave his only one and only son so that if Kim would believe in him, he wouldn't perish but have eternal life…

You're trying to make it personal.

If Kim would believe…

It's a gift, Kim, you’ve got to choose it. You’ve got to believe it. If you do, you will not go to the Lake of Fire, you will go to Heaven. You'll have eternal life not eternal death. This is good news; it's outrageous news.

But, you have to choose it.

Why would God make it so you have to choose?

The answer is the whole thing—the whole plan—this is the Book of Romans and the Book of Revelation. This is the Sons of God. God created us with free will because we're His children and we're going to reign with Him. He wants us to be able to put on wisdom and to grow, to make choices, to become powerful, to lay down our lives in ministry, to lay down our wealth for the spread of the Gospel.

“God isn’t going to force us into Heaven any more than He’ll force us into Hell, it’s your choice. He’s done all he can to save you.”

— Bruce Peterson

God wants you to be able to choose because we're going to stand before Him. We can't legitimately stand before a God and be judged for our choices if we can't make them.

God has huge aspirations for you. He can't have those if you can't choose them. God has giant dreams for us and because he wants those to be realized, He gave us the ability to choose.

God isn't going to force us into Heaven any more than He'll force us into Hell, it's your choice. He's done all he can to save you.

Whoever believes…

That's Jesus talking. “I'm here to accomplish this,” Jesus said, “God so loved you, he sent me. And just like the snake in the wilderness has to get lifted up I'm going to get lifted up for you.” (John 3:14 paraphrased; referencing Numbers 21:4-9)

“I'm going to get lifted up for you.” I don't know how easily that rolled off of Jesus lips. Did he quiver, even then? Did he not like to think about that day? I'll bet he didn't. But he did love to think about the love of God.

For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.

Jesus was saying, “I'm not here to condemn the world. I'm not here as your judge now. I'm here to save you. I'm here to save you. I'm the answer. I'm the solution. ‘I'm the way, the truth, and the life, no one gets to the Father but through me (John 14:6).'”

Whoever believes in him is not condemned,

Whoever—what? Believes in him.

….is not condemned

No books. There's no condemnation, you can't have books. If you believe in him you're over here, just a name in Heaven in the Book of Life. 

Whoever believes…

If you would just believe; if you would accept this gift of God, your name would be in the Book of Life, your books would be destroyed. When you stand before God you would end up in Heaven because all you have is a name and you have become a Son of God.

That's next week's sermon—the results of choosing God’s gift of salvation for yourself.

but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

Why would you stand condemned already if you don't believe? Because you're still following the ways of the world. You're still over here in your sin. All you have before God is books. You're in grave trouble right now.

You should see the mountain of literature on your life, it's not pretty it's really gross. You're in big big trouble. You're not in trouble later, you're in trouble right now. You just don't see it coming. The Mack truck is literally inches from you and it's going a thousand miles an hour and all you keep doing is putting fuel on that fire. You're in grave trouble.

I'm already out of trouble. My books are already gone.

Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe…

You don't have a way out.

What is your payment? If you're not going to accept Jesus, what is left for you to pay with?

They might say, “My life.”

Well, let's go over that again. Jesus said, “Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength. And love your neighbors as yourself.” And if you do those things you're going to be okay. How are you doing?

We are right back to that. You’re doing terrible at it.

Art by CocoMilla

Let's actually look at your life, let's actually talk to your wife. Let's talk to your actual neighbors. Do they like your dog? Do they like your cats? Do they love your hoarding? Do they love the broken down cars, the trailer that’s parked in front of their house? How are you doing as a neighbor? Do you even talk to them? Have you even shared the Gospel? Because, if you haven’t, you're a terrible neighbor.

“Love your neighbor.” You're in trouble. But notice—you're in trouble based on what you believe and not by what you do. You don't have a way to pay for your sins, because you refuse to believe. The issue is belief.

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That's step three, you're driving home belief. It can't be clearer than that and if it is still not clear to them, just a couple verses later in the same book is our last verse. It's John 3:35-36 and it's crystal clear.

John 3:35-36 (NIV)

The Father loves the Son and has placed everything in his hands. Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them.

Jesus is the solution. God loves him. God affirms him. He’s like, “It's all about Jesus.”

Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them.

“You call God a liar when you say Jesus isn’t the solution.”

— Bruce Peterson

Problem #1 God is Holy and He doesn't excuse sin.

Sin must have a payment and you're either going to pay your debt or you're going to believe in God's solution. You're going to trust the wisdom of God. Trust that He knows your debt and solved your debt through Jesus.

Here it is and I can keep going like this all day long. I’ll say, “If you want a hundred more verses that say you have to make a choice. That what God wants most is for his people, the people he created, is to trust, to use their wisdom to believe Him. God wants to be believed.”

Art by Elizabeth Wang

You call God a liar when you say Jesus isn't the solution.

Jesus said, “I'm the solution.”

You just add more stuff to your books.

Here it is, you want the sun? It's a free gift.

If you stand before God on the basis of your own behavior, you're done, you're just done.

God loves you so much. I love you. But, God loves you more than I love you and God wants you to be part of His family. So He has offered you Grace. He's offered you the greatest gift possible—the gift of eternal life, the gift of holiness.

Will you accept it?

I'll tell you right now, this is the hardest part in the whole Evangelistic process, the last bit once you get done with these verses, the bit where you go, “So, what do you say? Do you want it? Or, don't you?”

This closing bit is difficult, so here's what I do and you can figure out your own way if you want.

I say this, “So, does that make sense to you?”

And they'll go, “Yeah, I get what it's saying. I get the thing”

So I just ask them a couple questions. I say, “Okay, so if you were to die right now and stand before God and He would say to you, ‘Why should I let you into Heaven?’ What would you say?”

If they say something like, “You know, I don't know right now.” …and that happens, I've had that happen… “I don't know right now. This is a lot, it's a lot. I need to think about it. I don't know how to answer.”

If they answer like that, it’s important to be cool.

I'd go, “Okay, great! If you decide, I would love to know that. I would love to learn that you actually believed. But, it's okay, you know, God wants you to think about it. This is a choice. That's a lot of truth I just dropped on you.”

This has been three sermons for me, but it’s usually just one conversation. It's a two and a half hour conversation I've just had with somebody.

“So, yeah, take your time think about it. But, here's what I'd recommend: don't die until you make a decision. Literally do safe things for a little while until you're settled on this issue.”

If they answer correctly right away—which—a lot of people are going to be able to answer right. But they might be answering just because they know what you want to hear. They might just be saying it right back.

I would answer, “Jesus is the solution, trust in Jesus.”

I'm never going to tell someone they're saved. What I'll do is follow up with a second question sometimes.

Because I never actually come out and say it, they would have to put the pieces together, so I say to them, if they answer the first one right, “Well who do you think goes to hell then?”

Usually they have to pause because I've only been talking about how to go to Heaven. I haven't been talking about who goes to Hell—not directly. If they've followed me though that's self-evident. And, if they followed, if they really have agreed with step one, if they just got saved, they can almost always answer this question without a problem.

They say, “Well…those who don't believe in Jesus.”

Then you go, “Okay, awesome, I love that you understand!”

Then I'll say, “If you believe that, if you just chose to believe that…that’s faith. You don't have to muscle through. It doesn't mean you're not going to question it later, it just means if you understand this and want this, then that's what God calls faith. And, if you just chose to have faith in Christ’s sacrifice…”

This is when I explain to them all the things which just happened for them.

“If you believe that, if you have done that today, your name just got written down in the Book of Life…”

Then I go into next week's sermon.

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In “How to Lead Someone to Christ (Part 4)” We will talk about all of the wonderful things which happen for someone when they first believe in Jesus.

Click here for “How to Lead Someone to Christ (Part1).

Click here for “How to Lead Someone to Christ (Part2).

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This series of blog posts titled, “Holding on to Reason”, is named after Amanda’s favorite C.S. Lewis quote: “Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason has once accepted, in spite of your changing moods.”

Click here for more things written or transcribed by Amanda Hovseth.

What’s New in the Cross Reference Library? Discovering the Will of God

The God You May Not Know - Our personalities inevitably conform to our gods. We have witnessed this down through history. When we worship inferior versions of God – money, status, security, power, pleasure, you name it – we become like our idols. If your god is money, you’ll become materialistic. If your god is sex, you’ll become increasingly sensual. If your god is yourself, you’ll become more self-focused. But if your God is the almighty Creator of Scripture you’ve got a lifetime of joy ahead of you. So it is no exaggeration to say that the study of God is the supreme study of a lifetime. It lifts our thoughts, steadies our nerves, purifies our motives, expands our confidence, and strengthens our influence. It’s the greatest subject we could ever study, for God is the apex of all reality. One of the reasons we don’t love God as much as we should is because we don’t know Him as well as we ought. Trying to comprehend the person of God is like trying to capture all the galaxies of the universe in a child’s prism. Yet the Bible encourages us to try, for God seeks to be known. In this teaching series, I want to personally introduce you to the God you may not know—to His knowledge, holiness, all-pervasive presence, unlimited power, love, and the other qualities that make Him who He is. Knowing our eternal God changes our daily lives—and He is well worth knowing, for He alone is worthy of all praise!

The 4 Wills of God - Should you take the job? Quit the job? Begin a relationship? End a relationship? Move? Plant roots? How do we find God’s will for life's big decisions? What if you had total freedom? Emerson Eggerichs believes there is a clear answer to finding God’s will. The Bible itself reveals the clue–a secret hidden in plain sight. Before launching his Love & Respect marriage ministry with wife Sarah, Emerson was a senior pastor for nearly 20 years in East Lansing Michigan. Before that, Emerson and a friend ran a free counseling center called “The Open Door” in Cedar Rapids, Iowa. As Emerson navigated his career he found both he and the people he was counseling were wrestling with big decisions and knowing if that decision was really what God wanted. Immersing himself in God’s word for over 30 hours a week for 19 years, he discovered simple, clear truths that set him and many others free. There is a starting point to discovering God’s Will for your next decision and for your entire life. Begin here to read stories of people in the same situations you face today. You’ll be able to discover the freedom you’ve been searching for, and then, like Emerson, you’ll help others find that freedom too.

When I go to write these posts, I try to bring together books that are similar in context. And sometimes when I do posts on new books that come in, that isn’t always easy. So I was definitely surprised when both of this week’s books have to do with knowing God and His will. In David Jeremiah’s  The God You May Not Know, it gives great insight on how he got to know God personally, and how we can take the journey from knowing about God to knowing God. One of the first things that he says in the first chapter (and I’ve heard about other people doing this as well), is how he has a special place out in the country where he can spend time with the Lord. I have spoken with people who call this their prayer walk time. They set aside 30 minutes or so in the morning or afternoon to spend time with God in His creation. “We are made to know God—to know about Him and to know Him personally.” How many of us have allotted time set aside to actually spend time with God? David Jeremiah had an analogy in his book which illustrates a tough reality. “Suppose the only time you communicated with your spouse was once a week (Sunday morning), and you gave them a box of chocolates or flowers. If your entire relationship with your loved one consisted of a box of chocolates every seventh day, the marriage would wither. That’s what some people do to God.” I know that was tough for me to read. There have been seasons in my life where I go into church on Sunday and I join in worship and listen to the sermon, but then wonder why I feel hopelessly lost for the rest of the week. Proverbs 9:10 comes to mind: “The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, and the knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.”

Our other new book this week was The 4 Wills of God by Dr. Emerson Eggerichs. This one really fascinated me, because it seemed to aid in answering a question I’ve had recently. “What is God’s will for my life?” What’s great about this book is: I’m not the only one who has asked this question. But most of the time, when people ask this, they want to know about their career, relationships, finances, etc. Here’s what Dr. Eggerichs says about that, “The question, ‘What is God’s will?’ explores what I call the universal will of God for all believers. I contend that the best way to know God’s unique will is to know and follow His universal will for all believers, and this book is about four universal wills of God, which serve as a great starting point.” The wills that he expands on are as follows: 

Believe in Jesus Christ (John 6:40)

Abstain from sexual sin (1 Thessalonians 4:3)

Give Thanks in everything (1 Thessalonians 5:18)

Submit in Doing Right (1 Peter 2:13-15)

Now, Dr. Eggerichs makes sure to say, “Though all of God’s commands in the Old and New Testament that apply to the church fall under God’s will for us, God reveals in four passages, four specific wills. This doesn’t mean we can ignore the rest of God’s commands, only that we probably will ignore the rest if we ignore these four.” Then again, reading the whole Bible, along with these four verses would also be beneficial. But if you want to know more about what Dr. Eggerichs has to say about God’s will or even Dr. Jeremiah’s thoughts on truly knowing God, come on into the Cross Reference Library to check out these books.

—”Therefore do not cast away your confidence, which has great reward. For you have need of endurance, so that after you have done the will of God, you may receive the promise.” Hebrews 10:35-36

What was it like watching God change your father's life?

My dad speaking in church after he was diagnosed with cancer.

In the Christian community in my small home town of Scottsbluff, Nebraska, my dad (Dan Hovseth) was well known. He was the type of guy who was either loved or hated. He never backed down from a lively debate and since the time he accepted Jesus as his Savior when I was five years old, he was a fierce defender of the faith, studying every apologetics book available and passing them out like candy to anyone he could force them on. Kids I went to school with often assumed he was a pastor and would be shocked when I’d explain to them that he actually drove coal trains, he just really loved Jesus and spreading the Gospel.

Me, sleeping in my father’s arms.

But, my dad was far from perfect and he would be the first to admit that. He was simply a human saved by grace. His humanity plus his eccentric/slightly bi-polar qualities, made my childhood rocky. It was a series of high mountain tops and deep valleys. As I grew older, and my dad grew closer and closer to God, the valleys became less frequent and less deep. I got to witness God transform my dad’s life in ways everyone had believed were impossible.

My dad, me, and my siblings on a family walk (mom took the pic on a flip phone).

He passed away August 22nd, 2015 when I was 26 years old from non-smokers lung cancer. It took me quite awhile to process the grief from his death—I’m sure I’m still processing some of it. But, about a month after his funeral, when I was back at college across the state, I sat down in a fancy pretzel restaurant and silently cried in public as I hand-wrote the first draft of this non-fiction story (I just couldn’t wait until I got home to get these words out). It was the best way I knew how to sort out the various waves of emotion and memories which had been fighting to break loose. It represents the state of my mind during the first few minutes of my life after I found out he had passed away. Time seemed to slow down during those minutes as my mind jumped me from flashback to flashback of my life with my dad.

Be forewarned, this isn’t a pretty story. The language isn’t always clean. But, it is real. It is human. And, it shows the grace of God in real, human lives.

My mom and dad (Dan and Lori Hovseth)

(Before you get concerned, don’t worry, my mother has read and approved of me sharing this story, and my father would have too—anything to show the truth of Christ’s sacrifice and God’s salvation and grace in our lives.)

This is also the flagship story of my brother, Giles Hovseth, and mine short story compilation book which we dedicated to our father and titled, “Our Dad is Dead: and Other Fun Things to Talk About”.

Well, with all that said, here it is: a glimpse into my grief stricken memories.

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My Dad is Dead

by Amanda Hovseth

“Amanda…” my brother’s voice breaks, like he’s choking on something. “Amanda, wake up.”

“What? Yah, Giles what…” I’m answering before my eyes open, my mind determined to respond before my body is willing.

“Dad’s dead.”

“Wow, really?”  Wow? Did I really say wow? How did Giles get in here anyway? The door is open…I left the door open. When I went to bed a couple of hours ago I felt like I needed to. Twenty-six years old and still superstitious, ridiculous. Good. It would have hurt him to have come downstairs to a locked door.

“Yah.” He coughs. “It just happened…just now.”

“Okay, I’m coming.” I reach for my glasses. Have to get upstairs. Can’t wait for contacts, in a hurry…a hurry, why? Time is already up. Dead. Gone. Permanent. I put on my glasses. My brother has left, he’s waking up our other brother, right outside my room. My baby brother, the youngest, my babiest. Dad’s dead.  My room is dark but light shines through the opened doorway, I hurry towards it.

I am twenty-five years old, back in college, and looking forward to a road trip home with my dad for Thanksgiving Break. When he says he is proud of me now, it feels real because I am finally proud of myself. I had never really believed him before because a silent voice inside had always read the undertones in his words as disappointment. But, now my first book is published, and the majority of reviews are positive, his review is positive. He stops at every bookstore, school, and church on his road trips to tell them about my book. His ceaseless peddling of my work has shown me he believes I have something worth saying.

He’s temporarily stationed in Arkansas for the railroad and is going to drive out of his way to pick me up. We will have seven hours alone together and I am excited to talk to him about my new life, my new future.

My phone rings, he tells me he is running late. He took a nap after work and ended up sleeping much longer than anticipated. I say it’s okay because I’ll just nap while I wait for him.

Five minutes later he calls again. He sounds tired and he stumbles over his words. His boss says he has to work later that day. I might as well drive myself and we will meet back home. He is very sorry. We hang up and I stare at the phone. It’s okay, I will still get to see him at home. But a realization penetrates my hopes, he has never missed family time for work before. He has always talked his way out of or into anything he wants. He is a real life con-artist. It doesn’t compute. I shake my head and smile. He’s an easily distracted guy, I’m sure it’s nothing.

I use the bathroom and then grab my bag to leave. My phone rings. It’s my mom, probably to check on our travel status. I answer. There’s two seconds of silence…“Mom?” She sobs. I put my bags down, “What’s wrong?”

“Have you left yet?”

“No, just about to.”

“Good, you might need to go to Arkansas. Your father had a stroke, he’s in the hospital. He says he’s fine, but I know he’s not. I’m sorry, you’re the closest… he needs someone there.”

“Okay…” I check google maps. “I can be there in eight hours.” She thanks me. “I’ll head out now.” We hang up. 

My phone rings. “Mandy?” My dad’s voice is soft and wavers as if he is half asleep.

My dad at the hospital in Arkansas with friends he had already made (and talked to about Jesus) during the short time he was stationed there for work.

“I know, Dad, Mom just called me. I’m on my way to your hospital.” I prepare for an argument. For him to say he’s fine and my mom shouldn’t have imposed…

“Are you sure?”

“Yes, I want to come.”

“I’ll text you my room number when they tell me.”

“Love you, Dad, see you soon.”

“Love you too.”

I’m eighteen years old, my dad’s calling me a stupid b**** and shoving me backwards. I fall onto the couch. My mother screams. “DON’T YOU EVER! Don’t you ever talk to my daughter like that!” She runs at him and is pounding his chest and arms with her fists. He tries to block her blows while moving her away. She stops, exhausted and drops down next to me, pulling me into her arms. My dad is pressing his palms to his forehead. He throws a chair across the room. Then grabs car keys and heads out the front door. My mom is telling me not to listen to him. I barely hear her. I’ve never been called a b**** before, probably never will be again…at least not by someone who knows me.

I’m twenty-three years old, in a hotel in San Antonio. It’s just me and my dad, he’s been temporarily stationed here by the railroad, “borrowed out” they call it. He didn’t want to go alone, so I decided to go with at the last minute. We’ve been here a month and a half now. He walks into the hotel room. I sit up in bed.

My dad

“Dad? Your back already? How’d you get back?” Normally I have to pick him up from the depot when his trains come in.

He’s ruffling his hair; his eyes look hollow. He sits down to undo his work boots, but I can tell his skin is crawling. I wait, he’ll talk, it’s usually hard to stop him from talking.

“I hit a guy with my train. A boy. A man. He was in his twenties.” He glances at me every once in a while as he talks, but never makes eye contact. “He just stepped out in front of the train. I think he had headphones on. They phoned his parents…came to the tracks…apparently his brain wasn’t right…he was…autistic or something.”

“What? Why was he walking alone if he was that autistic?”

“I know, right!” My dad is looking in the freezer, probably for ice cream. He pulls it out and puts it back, his skin is pale. “Some people just don’t…they just don’t think…I’ve hit cows before. Those trains, they really leave nothing. Just pulp, barely tell it’s human. He wasn’t even close to the size of a cow.” He’s opening a bag of beef jerky.

“You know it’s not your fault, right? You can’t stop those trains on time. If you could have, you would have.”

“Of course it’s not my fault!” He paces back and forth across the length of the room. “No, I’m okay. I could see him there from a ways away. He was just walking, and I thought he would stop. I honked the horn just in case. He just kept walking. I thought for sure he would stop, why wouldn’t he stop? Everyone stops. Then he didn’t…he just didn’t…stepped right out in front. Train didn’t even bump. We pulled the breaks, I thought maybe he’d made it across, where I couldn’t see. Trains take a long time to stop though.”

“Are you fired?”

“I thought for sure I would be, but no. They want me to see a therapist and I have three days off of work. I told them I don’t need a therapist, it wasn’t my fault, I had no hand in it. His parents didn’t even think so. Said he was living on his own for a year now, his roommate didn’t know he was autistic.” He takes a bite of his jerky. “Did you have plans for today?”

I do, I planned on meeting up with another railroader’s wife and daughter and going to see the Madame Tussauds Wax Museum and Ripley’s Believe It or Not. I ask if he wants to join.

He wrinkles his nose. “No, call me when you’re done though.”

“I can stay if you want.”

“No, no Mandy, really I’m fine. It wasn’t my fault.” He’s pacing again.

“Of course it wasn’t but we can go another day, when you’re at work.”

“Really,” He raises his voice and waves me off. “I’m fine. Call me after.”

Me and my dad

I leave the room and go to the museums. My phone is turned off inside because it’s proper etiquette but when I make it to the gift shop and turn it on to call my father I realize I have six missed calls from him. My stomach flips and I call him back.

“Hello?” He answers and the phone crackles from the wind blowing past. “Mandy? Where’ve you been?”

“In the museums I just got done and called you.”

“It took that long?”

“Yah, I guess.”

“Well I’m out front.”

I turn to my friends and tell them where I’m going. As I walk to the front of the museum I spot him on a bench. He smiles and waves, but his eyes still look hollow. My heart aches. Poor guy, I should have never left him alone.

I’m nine years old and I’ve had a sleepless night. My parents are up, yelling at each other. I am lying in bed, pretending to be asleep and wondering if my sister in the bunk below me is actually asleep or if she is crying silently as well. I think that perhaps I should climb into bed with her and comfort her, but I don’t know how. And if she is asleep then I’d only wake her up. So, we lie alone.

My family: (back to front, left to right) Dan, Lori, Gavin, Kara, Giles, me

It’s the next morning, I slip into the bathroom to use the toilet. My mom is in the shower but there is only one bathroom so we often double up.

She steps out as I’m brushing my teeth and I notice a long dark bruise on her right thigh. I ask if she’s okay. She insists she is, she doesn’t even know how she got that bruise.

My dad is nowhere to be seen. Someone has obviously tidied up the living room. Part of me is worried my dad won’t come back. The other part knows that when I return from school there will be a new vase of flowers in the window and my parents will be waiting to hear how my day went. Like every time before.

I’m twenty-six years old, I came home for the summer because my dad has been diagnosed with cancer. Turns out he never had a stroke, only seizures brought on by brain tumors. My parents found me a job in road construction. I work anywhere from eight to fifteen hours a day. I’m walking up the stairs at five a.m. to get ready for work. My dad is awake in the living room. He always wakes up to send my brother and me off to work. He is looking at his phone. The low morning light allows the glow from his phone to accentuate his bone structure; sharp edges which used to be concealed in muscle. I wonder at how quickly his athletic physique has abandoned him.  

“Mandy! Good morning! Have you seen these pictures of Giles and Jamus?”

My dad with my cousin Jamus (after my dad was diagnosed with cancer)

Jamus is one of my cousins, he’s four years old and can’t digest any food at all, so he lives solely on a powdery nutrient substance. Quite frankly if people didn’t know he was sick, they wouldn’t guess it. He has curly red hair and chubby cheeks that even cherubs would envy. He enjoys labeling days as “Hug Day” and then distributing hugs throughout the house. When he has an allergic episode he dresses up as Iron Man and faces the situation head on. He is just absolutely adorable and ceaselessly cheerful. He also loves my father, calls him his best friend.

“Yah.” I chuckle. “Jamus is super cute.”

“I know!” My dad lets out what is best described as a girlish squeal. “I just keep thinking, he couldn’t be any cuter, and then I flip to the next picture and…he is still even cuter!”

I laugh as I scoot my mom’s cat out of the way and head out the front door.

His voice trails after, “I love you Mandy, and I’m proud of you.”

He has said that every morning this summer.

I don’t know who made it to the stairs first, me or my brothers. It doesn’t matter, we have all climbed them and are now walking through the kitchen. My mom is already on the phone, it reminds me I’m late to the show. Time is slipping through my fingers at a speed I have never before encountered.

My family around 2003

I’m twelve years old. My dad is standing by the stove with a big butcher knife in his hand. Neighborhood kids are watching and gasping as he continuously flips the knife into the air and catches it while making various faces of fear and shock.  Tootsie Roll, our little Yorkshire Terrier, is hanging out by his feet. I call her over and pick her up. My dad glances my way and I frown at him. He knows this type of thing worries me. He calls out. “What, Mandy? You don’t trust me?” Then he throws the knife even higher. I roll my eyes and leave the room. He can insist on dropping a knife on his foot, but he can’t make me watch.

I am nineteen years old and I don’t know how many days I have been lying in bed. I share a house with two friends.  My dad hadn’t wanted me to move out. He had yelled and yelled, calling me a fool for wasting the money. Then he had scoured my new apartment from top to bottom, looking for ways to make it safer. I don’t know what I am doing with my life. College is boring, and the end seems so far away. I haven’t picked a career and have no idea how to go about doing so. And I just keep gaining weight no matter how much I work out. A month ago some doctor gave me antidepressants and I don’t know if I’ve left my bed since. I’ve missed every single college class, and I’ll tell you what, I couldn’t care less. I couldn’t care if the world caught fire and burned up right in front of me. I couldn’t care if a masked man entered my room and skinned a box of puppies. I couldn’t care if Orlando Bloom asked me to dinner.

Me, my dad, and my sister (Kara)

My phone rings. I answer. It’s my father. I can barely hear him. I’m not sure if he’s on speakerphone or if I’m still half asleep. While he talks I stare at the wall which I painted pink five months ago. The call is short. He tells me he loves me no matter what. He knows I’m going through some stuff and I might be worried he’d be disappointed. But he’s not, it doesn’t matter, he loves me anyway.  The phone is beeping now. He must have hung up. I pull it away from my ear and notice the time. It’s time to take my antidepressant. I pick up the box and roll onto my back. I hold the little white pods in front of my face and stare at them. The sun sets outside my window, slowly obscuring my view. I blink, throw the pods at the trash can, and stand up. It’s time to take a shower.

I’m two years old, it’s the middle of the night and my mom is pulling me out of bed and bundling me into the car. I ask her where we are going.

“To pick up your father.”

My parents (Lori and Dan)-apparently I took this picture of them as a toddler

It feels like we have driven forever. I am lying with my head resting by her pregnant belly when we pull up in front of a bar. I know it’s a bar because of the neon lights. All bars have lights like that. She tells me to wait in the car and grabs a bat from the back seat. I wonder if my dad needs it to loan to a friend. Then she pauses and puts the bat back down.

Minutes later she is stomping out of the bar with my dad stumbling behind her, a bright red imprint of a palm on his cheek. They both get into the car without saying a word. I climb onto my dad’s lap and I sleep the rest of the way home.

I turn the corner from the kitchen into the hallway. I know he will be there, at the end and to the right. I know he will. But he won’t. I don’t want to go. I have to go.

I’m twenty-four years old and at a Friday night Bible study with my father. People are asking him about his testimony. I smile because I know my dad doesn’t like giving his testimony. He says that everyone thinks their life story is worth telling and most people are wrong. They insist. So, he gives them a piece of information which I always expected but never confirmed until then.

My parents (Dan and Lori) cutting the cake on their wedding day.

“When my lady told me she was pregnant with Mandy I panicked. I knew I should marry her and take care of the kid, but how was I supposed to do that? I was just a kid…I gambled a lot then, had gotten in too deep with the mafia. I started watching Oprah at my mom’s house, thought it might help, it didn’t much. My brother…the one, he’s in Omaha now but was in Alliance, Denny, his wife got me an interview with Union Pacific Railroad. So, I drove through the night, from Chicago to Western Nebraska, took the test, and they gave me the job. I figured the mafia goons wouldn’t drive to Nebraska lookin’ for me, cuz really, you can’t squeeze a dry sponge anyway. It worked, I paid them off later.…But, if it wasn’t for Lori’s pregnancy I would have never looked to leave. If I had never moved to Nebraska I would have never met Pastor Rich. And if I had never met Rich, I…who knows for sure, but I think I would not have ever been convinced of my need for a Savior. I thought I was good enough to make God happy. I suppose everyone thinks that. Ironic isn’t it, wanting to earn love and failing; when all along I could’ve gotten it for free?”

I’m twenty-three years old. I just graduated from Bible College. My dad has called a family meeting. He wants to study the book of Proverbs. It’s a good idea in theory, but family meetings never end well. This time it’s my fault.

I’m mad. My stomach is clenching and my jaw is tightening. He’s picked a study guide which is full of big words and nonsense phrases and ideas. I try to explain, “Proverbs is simple. This book is ridiculous. Man’s way of overcomplicating God’s Word to make ourselves seem more sophisticated.” Normally my dad would understand this. I know for a fact he would agree with that general statement. But this isn’t normally, this is a family meeting, and something goes wrong.

My family, taking awkward family Christmas photos

I’m grabbing my backpack, mentally calculating what is inside…my wallet, laptop, flash drive (with all my stories on it), phone…while I’m yelling at my dad and telling him I’d be better off alone. He yells back, something like, “Go ahead then!” I slam the door and stomp two miles to the library.

It’s been five hours in the library. I have friends I can call, plenty of friends who would let me move in as long as I need. Even a couple of guys I know who would welcome the chance to get closer to me, guys my dad wouldn’t approve of. But if I called them, if I called any of them, then the world would know. The world would hear of times he yelled, the time he broke our kitchen table, and they would see nothing else. They wouldn’t actually see him and how much he truly has changed throughout the years. Everything he has worked for, everything I have worked for, would be ruined.

I’m walking through my parents’ front door. The rest of my family is in the living room, quietly reading various books and watching TV. They look up when I come in, nod, and keep reading. My dad isn’t there. I wonder if I can sneak into my room and pretend like nothing happened. Our cat, Shale, is walking by. He pauses in front of me. Shale was a rescue, so he’s always hiding, never making a peep. Normally he runs when the front door is opened, instead he looks at me and walks down the hallway. I follow him. He leads me into my parents’ room. My dad is on the bed with his back towards me and a phone in his hand. Shale jumps up onto the bed and meows. My dad turns around.

Instantly I start crying. And I say, “I came back. I don’t want to break up our family over a dumb argument.”

My dad is on his feet and hugging me. “I’m glad you came home. I didn’t know where to look.”

I’m twenty years old and I work as a secretary at Regional West Medical Center. My main job is organizing patients’ charts and putting doctors’ orders into the computer. It’s been a hard twelve-hour shift and I’m exhausted when I walk through my parents’ front door. A couple of my friends are over, so I try to put on a smile. My dad isn’t fooled and instantly notices my sour mood. He insists on knowing what has upset me. I keep it simple because I want to move on, telling him the job is hard because I seldom get bathroom breaks and the doctors are pretty rude. He’s furious. He calls my friend Andy over, grabs a phonebook and the car keys, and asks me what the doctors’ names are.

I ask, "Why do you need their names?"

Me and my dad

He says, “No one gets to be rude to my daughter, no matter who they are!”

Despite his rage, I smile. He and Andy plan on teaching the doctors “a lesson”. I know what type of lessons my dad teaches people and I know our town needs its doctors, no matter how rude they are. So, I convince him the doctors weren’t rude to me specifically. They are just rude in general. I really am okay. At this point, I’m beaming because of how protective my father and friends are, so he believes me and is content.

Instead of teaching lessons, he and Andy make homemade Chicago-style pizza.

I’m five years old. We are driving across the country, back home from my grandmother’s funeral. It’s nighttime. My parents laid down the seats in the back of our red minivan so that my siblings and I have a huge bed. I stare at the stars through the window and listen to the consistent calm of the wind blowing past.

My grandmother is dead. I cried when they told me, even though I barely knew her. I knew the concept of a grandmother, and mine was dead. Then I saw her body. It was white and cold, painted and posed. It was not her. They placed her body there, but she was not in it. I crawl to the front of the van and sit, leaning forward between my parents’ seats. I want to know where grandma is.

They tell me something my mother has known since she was young, but my father had only learned recently. Grandma could be in Heaven if she had trusted God to get her there. They just don’t know if she did.

I feel chills. How does someone trust God to get them to Heaven?

Me, my dad, and my sister (Kara) painting a porch (the van I accepted Jesus in is in the background).

They tell me that every time we do the opposite of what God wants us to do, we have to be punished for it. If we decide to try to handle the punishment ourselves, then God can’t let us go to Heaven, because not going to Heaven is the punishment. But even when God is angry, He loves us and wants us to go to Heaven. So, He decided to take the punishment, Himself. He came to earth as Jesus, never did anything wrong, and then was killed in our place. Now we have a choice: we can pay for our sins ourselves, or we can believe that Jesus already paid for all of our sins and accept that payment as a free gift.

I told them I wanted Jesus to pay for my sins. They taught me how to pray. That night I met God. I have never felt more like I could fly than at that moment. I breathed deep. I told my sister about it and she joined me in prayer. Then I went to sleep, trusting my dad would get us home safely and knowing my God would someday bring our souls home safely.

I step into my parents’ bedroom. It smells like a hospital: disgustingly sterile. My dad’s body is there. His eyes are open. One is staring in a different direction than the other. His mouth is also wide open. It has been open for days. He slept with it open. My mom has turned off the oxygen machine and taken the breathing tubes out of his nose, he doesn’t need them anymore. The machine’s constant clicking and blowing was a reminder of how much it hurt him to breathe—but now the world sounds wrong.  We all step in, take a look, and leave. My mom is calling my uncles, they will be over soon. She says she has already called hospice. I say I am going downstairs to change since company will be coming.

My dad in Monterey, California

I hurry back up the stairs. One of my brothers is telling the other that he needs to touch my father in order to make it real. The other is protesting, saying he doesn’t need to. I brush by quickly and say, “Don’t push him into anything, we all grieve different.” Then I’m back in my parents’ room, alone with my father. I step up to him and place three fingers under his jawbone as if to take a pulse…I’m six years old, I’ve had a nightmare. I know if I wake my father up he will let me climb into bed and I’ll be safe. I can sleep easy…No. No. I’m twenty-six years old. I’m twenty-six years old and I’m touching his neck. His skin isn’t quite cold yet. He’s not waking up. He’s not moving. He’s dead. My dad is dead.

I say, “I love you Dad. I’ll see you later.”

I’m twenty-five years old, it’s Thanksgiving Break and I’ve made it to the hospital in Arkansas. My dad is in the hospital bed. He’s on the phone with our pastor. I hear him struggle to speak so I step into the bathroom to give him privacy. It’s on speakerphone so I can still hear. My dad is always worried cell phones will give us cancer, so he doesn’t like holding them up to his head. Our pastor doesn’t want to let my dad give up hope. He says, “There’s still a chance. You could survive…you’re not dying before me.” I stare at the sink because I don’t want to look in the mirror. My dad says, “No listen. You know the story of John Bradford, right? I want my kids to know. I want, after all this, the one thing they should learn from my life…‘There but for the grace of God go I’.”

I take my fingers off of my dad’s neck. I walk out of his bedroom and into the bathroom. I close the door, and I cry.

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“Brothers we do not want you to be ignorant about those who fall asleep, or grieve like the rest of men, who have no hope. We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him.”

— 1 Thessalonians 4:13-14

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Click here to learn about what exactly it was that changed my father’s life (the Gospel message).

Click here for the book this story is taken from: “Our Dad is Dead: and Other Fun Things to Talk About”.

Click here for more things written by Amanda Hovseth.

This series of blog posts titled, “Holding on to Reason”, is named after Amanda’s favorite C.S. Lewis quote: “Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason has once accepted, in spite of your changing moods.”

What Does The Bible Say About Generosity And Giving?

You can listen to Ask The Pastor every weekday at 9:00am MST on 97.1FM Hope Radio KCMI! You can also listen and subscribe to Ask The Pastor in your favorite podcast feed. Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Stitcher, Amazon Music and most other podcast services.

This edition of Ask the Pastor features Pastors Johnathan Hernandez and Garry Schick.

Garry Schick
Well Jonathan, I'm not sure you got this question, but I think it's a great one. What does the Bible say about generosity and giving? What do you think?

Jonathan Hernandez
Yeah, that's definitely one that I think, as I pastored for 10 years, I always remember hearing this question come up and even in our youth group. Our kids will ask a question that's similar to that. So I think as we look at this, I think a lot of times we think generosity and giving has to be financial and money, and I think we miss it when we just keep it to that. As we look in scripture, we can think of Exodus chapter 35. Here we see that the Israelites are generously giving materials and time to build the tabernacle. So we could be generous in the building of the church, the church building, or even we could take that a little bit further and think about helping our community. If there's, like, we have the firefighter ministry here in town, that when there's a house that's been affected by a fire, there's this community that pulls together to help that family. And so that's a huge thing; that's being generous. That's giving. We could look at Malachi, Malachi chapter three, and it says, "to bring the whole tithe into the storehouse. That there may be food in the house." And this is the part in scripture, the only part in scripture that God says, "test me in that tithing part of giving and generosity." And we think about the New Testament and we see that God gave His one and only son that God was generously giving to us as a human race. And so we could look at all of those things and we see where not only is God generous in giving to us, but also where we can be generous in giving back into our communities. Into our churches with tithes and offerings given to missionaries that are out in the field financially. but not only financially, but also in prayer and support that way. So we can't get stuck in where generosity, being generous and giving is just financial; but where it's also us being the hands and feet where we're willing to help out. At Cornerstone, we have a day once a month where we have a food pantry and there's a bunch of us that get together and hand out food into our community for a couple hours that day. That's an amazing opportunity for us to be generous and give back to help support families that are in need. And I know there's lots of churches here in town that do similar things too. Not only with a food pantry, but also I remember my pastor, when I first gave my life to the Lord, him and the men's group would go around and mow people's lawns and things like that where they were being able to give back into the community and show the love of Christ through that. And so I just would really challenge our listeners to really think about, "how can you give generously back into the community? Into your church?" Are you serving in your churches and being generous with your time and things like that. And then also your tithes and offerings too.

Garry Schick
Yeah, I think we tend to look at our money as, and I think you mentioned this in a previous episode, just sort of as an illustration of, "well, this is mine and maybe I'll give you a little bit." And it's just kind of in our nature as we go out into the world. We want to get the most bang for our buck. And so we actually have a mindset to give the least to get the most. When it comes to biblical giving, this is a different motivation. This isn't about getting, and I guess the little phrase that came into my head while you were talking was, "give to what you love." It's a different motivation when you are getting the gifts for your loved ones at Christmas. At that point you're not, hopefully you're not saying, "well okay, my wife has this list of desires. What's the least I can give her this year?" That sends up some red flags in all kinds of areas about your relationship with your wife, if that's the attitude. Usually it's more, "okay, what's the best I can do for my wife and my kids?" What's the most we can afford, and maybe even just a little bit more literally, giving till it hurts to make those we love happy. In the Old Testament, there was some tithing required, and in a sense, it was just a way of giving back to God kind of a minimum. You have this harvest, 10%, that's affordable, right? That's not too big a hurt. And at the same time, it supports the temple, it supports the priest. So it was, in a sense that tithing was kind of a tax and a fairly light one at that. I mean, we love to only have to give 10%, but the idea behind it actually came from a time before there was any law at all. The very first tithe, of course, is given in the book of Genesis by Abraham in chapter 14. Nobody's requiring him to give, but he gives a 10th of the spoils of war to the Lord through Melchizedek, the priest. In fact, it's not only mentioned in Genesis 14:20, but it's taken up again in Hebrews 7:2. And then in terms of the tabernacle, and I think you mentioned this, when they were first building it in Exodus 35:20-29, Moses just kind of throws the doors open for people to give of what they had received from Egypt, when they were in Egypt, and on their way out of Egypt for the building of God's place of worship. And the people gave so freely that Moses actually had to tell them to stop bringing in silver and gold and all the things that were used in the making and the furnishing of that. I mean, we actually studied this in Bible study recently. And my board chairman said, "yeah, when was the last time we told the people to stop giving on a Sunday?" I mean, that just happened so rarely. But you kind of do see it when churches pull together and they're doing a project. There's a building project or a fundraising campaign, or something that people are not just doing because they have to, but they're excited. They can kind of see something beautiful as an end result that will honor the Lord and that they can be a part of. And there's kind of an excitement there, and that I think really should be, as you were pointing out, just the heart of our giving. We see it again in 2 Chronicles 8:24 and following when the temple has kind of falling into disrepair, and at one point the priest put out a box and people just, every time it's full. They just empty it and they give the money to the builders, and they didn't even have to ask for a receipt or proof that the money was used. Well, everybody was on the same page. And again, it was just one of those things where everybody was doing all they could do. It wasn't a matter of, "well yeah, I'll go build at the temple and I'll put in the minimum and get the most out of it from those." No, it was, everybody was like, "Now look at God's temple. We need to get this thing fixed and I need some resources to do it with. But as a builder, I'm going to put my all into it." The people said, "we trust you," and they worked together. I love the passage in Ecclesiastes 11:1 where it says, "cast your bread upon the waters and you will find it in many days." It's a beautiful thing. And you mentioned from Malachi, where God actually asks the people to test him. If you'll give, you just see how I will abundantly reward you, above and beyond. You know, in Philippians, many of us are familiar with the passage where Paul says, "and my God, will meet all your needs according to His glorious riches in Christ Jesus. But the context of that is where Paul had been in some need, and the Philippians had freely given to them just out of their love for him. And so one of the ways that we love God is to support those who are doing His work and to use our resources toward evangelism. Toward the support of your local church and ministries toward missionaries. And I mean, you can put it all on the plate and designate it one way or another. You can just put it in the general fund. You can pick specific missionaries that you give directly to. I mean, the Bible doesn't say, "here's how you give, where you give, when you give." I love when Paul says in Corinthians, he says, "remember this, whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly; but he who sows generously will reap generously. Each should give out of what he has decided in his own heart, not reluctantly or compulsion. For God loves a cheerful giver." As you pointed out, God freely gives to us. He doesn't owe us anything ever, but He freely cares for us. And that 10% or whatever---and I think 10%, even in the Old Testament was kind of considered a minimum and we shouldn't be looking, so we're kind of like, "oh, so you're saying it's got to be more than that?" No, I'm not. I'm saying, what can you in faith say, "okay, you have entrusted to me; I give back to you God because I love you and I'm grateful for how you are providing for me and my family." And it's the attitude of gratitude out of a heart of gratitude. With an attitude of gratitude we give to what we love. If the love isn't there, don't do it. If you're not grateful, don't do it. But heart check, do you know the Lord? I mean, have you pondered how He has poured out His mercies and love upon you through Christ? When that becomes the motivation then it's, man, "what can I do to really invest in it and look at it that way?" When we give to a cause, we may not directly receive the dividend, so to speak. You would if you threw it in the stock market, and you're supporting a company that you like and you're hoping to get back from them. This is a different kind of, 'get back.' You are giving to the Lord to say, "wow, and how will He use that?" And He does. He takes the little we give and He multiplies it, like Jesus did with the bread and the loaves. I mean, I've seen it in church functions. I remember once, and I've heard about it where it was sort of a funeral dinner and the lady said it just wasn't quite enough, but then it was enough. Well, how did that happen? They brought out of their hearts what they had, and, "Oh, we're going to be short. There's more people here than we thought," but wait a minute. It went to the very last person. How did that happen? God blesses it, and sometimes He does the miracles and sometimes somebody runs out and buys some more rolls. I mean, it's not even about looking for a miracle, it's just looking to love God and knowing that He's going to love us back in return; in a physical and a practical way. We are physical beings. Yes, we worship in spirit and truth, but we worship with our whole being. And giving is one of those ways that in a concrete way, we can be a part of what God is physically doing in this world. And what a great idea as we enter the new year, and some of us have annual meetings coming up and some of them, they had happen toward the end of last year. But no matter where you're at, if you're part of a church that you love, sit down with your wife or if you're a single person, sit down and just kind of look at your finances and say, "okay, what can I do to really make this thing go this year? How can I bless and be a part of in a positive way?" Not giving in a way that takes control, like, "okay, I'll give if--" no, that is not the standard. It's, how can I just be a part and not only, as you pointed out, not only in our physical giving that should be there, but just in other ways. How can I help out? How can I get involved? How can I take of the gifts that God has given me, the strengths, the talents, the spiritual gifts, the interests? How can I channel that into loving God, building His church, encouraging others, sharing the good news of Christ to world that needs it?

Reading the Bible in a Year

You can listen to Ask The Pastor every weekday at 9:00am MST on 97.1FM Hope Radio KCMI! You can also listen and subscribe to Ask The Pastor in your favorite podcast feed. Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Stitcher, Amazon Music and most other podcast services.

This edition of Ask the Pastor features Pastors Johnathan Hernandez and Garry Schick.

Garry Schick
Well Jonathan, I want to welcome you into the, kind of really, as I started this I thought, we'll do this for a week. And then last week I was like, "yeah, this is good," two weeks. But I really think what we're going to talk about today is a great conclusion and it's something I'm so passionate about, listeners, which is why I just keep laying it before you. A couple of weeks ago, I laid before them a reading challenge. And I don't know what path or plans you follow. In my own life, I do something different every year. But one of the simple ways I've found to get through the whole Bible in a year is just three chapters a day, Monday through Friday and four chapters a day on the weekends. And if you want to do the Old and New Testament at the same time, it'd be one chapter a day. Monday through Friday of the New Testament, and then a couple chapters a day Monday through Friday of the Old Testament, and then four chapters on the weekend. And then for those who are like, "I want to spend a little time in Psalms and Proverbs," take those four chapters a day in the Old Testament on the weekends and just make two of those chapters on Saturday from the Psalms and two of those chapters on Sunday, one from Psalms, one from Proverbs. Or Ecclesiastes or Song of Solomon and the Solomon's writings. But anyway, a great way to get through. And I know there's many paths through the Bible, and even just reading the Bible in years, not always a good idea. I just spent the last four with a study Bible, just getting a little closer to it. And so that's what we talked about last week, was digging deeper into the word and just some of, I mean, there's so much more I could have talked about. How to do word studies; basically where you look up, and take something like Strong's Concordance, which you can find online. And just, what are the passages in that book? In Paul's letters or John's writings, or whatever you're in. Or even the whole New Testament or the whole Bible or whatever. But taking as much time as you have, not more, but if you're a retired person, you might really have some time to really mine out the riches of God's word, and just using your study Bible for all it's worth. But today, I just wanted to, and I know I camped on it a little bit the first week and probably even more last week. But ultimately, the goal is not just to know more, but to know the Lord and to walk in His ways and to feed on His word. And so I've got some thoughts, but Jonathan, in your own life, not just as a pastor, but also as a man of God, what are some ways that you feed on and draw strength from, and apply the word of God in your own life? I mean, as teachers we know how to do that, but bringing it home, how's that happen for you?

Jonathan Hernandez
Yeah, so I think the first verse that really pops out to me at times comes up with John chapter 15. And this is, "I'm the vine." And man, the first time I read through that, I don't think I really understood it. There's a lot of the Bible I read throughout the first time and I didn't understand it.

Garry Schick
Thank you for that honesty. We do. We are learners too when we get there.

Jonathan Hernandez
Yeah, and so just as I look at this and it says, "I'm the vine, you're the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit. Apart from me, you can do nothing." So when I look at that, I'm like, "wow, I'm so intertwined. I'm so close." You know, like a branch, they intertwine with each other and it strengthens them. And as we intertwine ourselves, in that sense, with God, think about how much that strengthens us to stay strong as we're connected to God. We receive the nutrition that we need for each and every day. And so, as we read through the Bible, I think early on in my walk, it became more of a, I've got to clock in, read the Bible, clock out, go to work. And it became, what do you want to say? A chore in a sense. And I never received anything out of that. Obviously, God's word's going to go out and it's going to take root, but there just wasn't things that were really opening up for me early in my walk. And I think one of the big things that really helped open that up was joining the men's Bible study at our church. And just hearing how some of these other mature Christians were reading and getting things. And I'm like, "Where did you get that? That doesn't even make sense. How did that work out?" I didn't get that when I read that. And just sitting there and watching them just really pull things out of the word from what God's, the Holy Spirit's showing them in there. And that really helped open up my eyes and see, "okay, well what am I doing that isn't helping me, I guess in that sense, in reading the word?" And so as I've seen that, I was like, okay, for one, I am doing it as a chore. I'm not doing it out of a relationship, out of love with God. And so as I moved into reading it to build relationship with God and not, "oh, I'm doing the Christian thing," it really helped me grow in a lot of my walk. And so that was a big thing. One of the things too that, and I can't remember the pastor that does this, but he talks about, every year he reads a different translation. That's a great way, just seeing it from one type of writing I guess, or language use to another, helped open up some scriptures for him or seeing it in a different light, I guess. And so I've tried that. I've always read out of the new King James. That's just kind of what my parents, my uncle was a pastor, and I think that's the bible that he gave me.

Jonathan Hernandez
And so that's usually my go-to. Then I was able to read through some different ones, the NIV and you know, different translations and stuff. And so, that helped open up some things. But I think the big thing is that when you get into the word, you're doing it out of a relationship that you want to know Him more. And so when I look at John 15, it's THAT. It's that relationship. The byproduct of being in that relationship is going to be allowing the word to come out in my life. And then I see, just like tithing. I gave my church five bucks when I was going, "I'll give you five bucks, but the rest is mine." Until I started understanding some more of the scriptures and things, and then I was like, "okay, well giving five bucks, that's not giving it with a joy for heart." My heart was like, "that's my money." And so then as the more I was in the word and the more that the fruit started being buried, it was like, "okay, now I understand. Now I am able to tithe and it's not out of a heart of, "this is my money." Now it's, "okay God, I'm giving joyfully to you." And that comes out too in Evangelism. I am, by myself, more of an introvert. More, I want to be myself type of thought. But when I allow the word of God to come into my life, and the fruit of that is everywhere we look in scripture, there's community. It's always community. We see community everywhere. And so that was really something that helped me learn that I need to live in community. And it's okay if I'm an introvert, but let's get out of that shell a little bit. And that was a byproduct of being in the word. That was the, living it out, part. Now I'm able to talk to other people, show people who Christ is and things like that. So I think the more that you're in the word, sometimes you'll start doing things that you don't realize that you're doing. It starts to shape your perspective.

Garry Schick
Well, good stuff. And that is such a passage because ultimately, as Paul says elsewhere, "it is he who works in us or in you to do and accomplish according to His good purpose." But there is a part of it that we're responsible for too. And I guess as we think about this, here's an acronym that I've taught kids, in terms of just figuring out how to apply. So where's the connect point? A great little acronym for how the Bible applies to your life is the word S.P.E.A.K. SPEAK. S is for sin. In the scripture you've just read, is there a sin to avoid or to confess or to repent of? P is for promise. Is there a promise? It's not just made from God to Abraham, but I mean, is there something there for us too? or a promise that Jesus is making to all believers or that Paul or James or John are saying that apply to us? Is there a promise to trust God for? E - is there an example to learn from? And I say, "to learn from," because there are some examples in scripture that we want to follow that, "wow, yeah, this is how Jesus, he started his day in prayer, I should do that." Or Daniel, he'd spent three times a day in prayer and, "oh, that's a great, I can learn from that." But there's also examples like, "oh, that one didn't work out so well." Like, you know, David. He didn't go out to battle like he should have, with the kings, and ended up staying home. And next thing you know, he's there with Bathsheba, committing sin and covering it up and what a mess. I mean, it basically dogged him for the rest of his life. So, that's not an example to follow. You don't want to do that. But you look at that and you go, "oh my goodness, how is it that he left himself open to that sexual temptation and sin that led to all of those horrific consequences in his life?" And what are some of the weak spots in your life, or mine, where we just need to go, "hey, I don't want to leave myself open to that." Or maybe it's something else totally different than that, but you just say, "I don't want to go there." And so you look at the example. Whether it's him or Saul; when he partly honored what God said, but only went halfway. And ultimately Samuel was like, "you know what? The Lord honors obedience more than sacrifice," or whatever. So we can learn from the good examples, "do this," and the bad examples, "avoid that." But it's not all about doing. The next one, the letter A, is one of my favorites. It's awe, awe of who God is. Is there something you've just read in your Bible that just stops you in your tracks and you go, "Ah! God is awesome." And just to reverence Him in worship. And then the last one, K, is for keep the commands, because there's a ton of them. Not just the 10 commandments, or even the great ones to love God and love others, but keep what God is. And frankly, as a teacher, I do this all the time without even thinking about that. Okay, so here is where we're going, but we also need to bring it home closer than that. Maybe those are all great applications of the word, but I also think it needs to kind of come back to that prayerful, "Lord, what do you want me to get out of this?" And I loved your honesty, Jonathan. Sometimes we read a passage, and nothing clicks right away. But I think sometimes, if we're prayerful, "Lord, is there something in your word that I read today that I just need to carry with me?" And a great verse that speaks to my heart is Joshua 1:8, "do not let this book of the law depart from your mouth, but you shall meditate on it day and night that you may be careful to do everything that is written in it. And in so doing, you will make your way prosperous and successful." So there's these two sides of it. There's what God does in us. He will perform, He will do, He accomplishes His good work. But there's also our response. And I looked up that the Hebrew word for meditate, it's the word hagah. And it means to mourn, growl, utter muse, moan, meditate, to devise, to kind of plot in your mind, to speak it forth. And I think when we're meditating, it's basically to mumble it. It is just like this...is kind of what you're talking about, your breath. Just the other day I was thinking about what Mary did when the shepherds had been there. And they're spreading the word and it says, "Mary kept, or treasured, all these things in her heart, and pondered them in her heart. And the Greek word, there's actually a, what is it? It's Sumballo, it means she threw it around in her head. We're constantly throwing thoughts around in our head, but are we throwing around in our head the things of God? Because that ultimately, I think, feeds our souls. And so listeners, I guess of all that I would said, if you would just take a word or a phrase from the word and having read it, having rightly understood it. Dug a little deeper, but then read, reflect, dig deeper, and then renew. Bring that, carry that word or phrase with you and let God feed your heart through the day from that passage of scripture. Whatever He's led you to that day, and let Him, like a shepherd, lead you to the green pastures of His word. The calm waters of His word. It's more than just, "I've read it, God said it, I believe it. Good." It's even more than just digging deeper. Now I understand some great things. And letting God show you what He wants you to do with it. Meditate on it, that you may be careful to actually now do. And in so doing, you will have made, we talk about how God blesses us. But it says, in so doing, you will have made your way prosperous and successful. You will have brought yourself to a better place and a closer walk. And it's amazing how God can take just a word or a phrase of scripture, and just give us strength in the tough moments and joy. Well, some thoughts. Jonathan, I don't know if you have some more, but what a great way to look into the year. Let's go deeper, closer, step-by-step with Jesus. Do you know one of the most repeated words in the Hebrew text of the Old Testament is the word for walk. It's a daily walk with. We'd love to run to our goals, but to really get to life change. It comes walking day by day with the Lord.