What’s New at the Cross Reference Library? New Jody Hedlund Books about Love and Second Chances!

Come Back To Me - The ultimate cure that could heal any disease? Crazy. That's exactly what research scientist Marian Creighton has always believed about her father's quest, even if it does stem from a desire to save her sister Ellen from the genetic disease that stole their mother from them. But when her father falls into a coma after drinking a vial of holy water believed to contain traces of residue from the Tree of Life, Marian must question all of her assumptions. He's left behind tantalizing clues that suggest he's crossed back in time. Insane. Until Marian tests his theories and finds herself in the Middle Ages during a dangerous peasant uprising. William Durham, a valiant knight comes to Marian's rescue and offers her protection . . . as his wife. The longer Marian stays in the past, the more she cares about William. Can she ever find her father and make it back to the present to heal her sister? And when the time comes to leave, will she want to? Bestselling author Jody Hedlund is your guide down the twisting waters of time to a volatile era of superstition, revolts, and chivalry in this suspenseful story.

Never Leave Me - In the last stages of a genetic disease, Ellen Creighton has decided to live out her remaining days at the estate of her longtime friend Harrison Burlington. Harrison cares deeply for Ellen, but as a wheelchair-bound paraplegic, he's never allowed himself to get serious in a relationship. However, he's desperately trying to save her by finding the holy water that is believed to heal any disease. When he locates two flasks, Ellen refuses to drink one of them because she believes the holy water killed her sister and father. In an effort to convince her to take it, Harrison ingests the contents first, and when Ellen witnesses the effects, she can no longer deny the power of the substance in the bottles. Dangerous criminals are also seeking the holy water, and Ellen soon learns they will go to any lengths to get the powerful drug - including sending her back into the past to find it for them. Best-selling and award-winning author Jody Hedlund plunges you into the swiftly flowing river of history in a race against the clock in this breathtaking, emotional second Waters of Time story.

Falling for the Cowgirl - As the only girl in her family, and with four older brothers, Ivy McQuaid can rope and ride with the roughest of ranchers. She's ready to have what she's always longed for--a home of her own. She's set her heart on a parcel of land south of Fairplay and is saving for it with her winnings from the cowhand competitions she sneaks into--but her dream is put in jeopardy when the man she once loved reappears in her life. After two years away, Jericho Bliss is back in South Park as an undercover Pinkerton agent searching for a war criminal. He has no intention of involving a woman in the dangerous life he leads, but one look at Ivy is all it takes for him to question the path he's set out for himself. Even though Jericho tries to resist his longtime attraction to the beautiful and vivacious Ivy, he finds himself falling hard and fast for her. In the process, his worst fear comes true--he puts her smack-dab in the middle of danger. With Ivy's life in the balance, will Jericho give her up once again, or will he find a way back to her, this time forever?

The Last Chance Cowboy - With danger drawing ever closer, their only hope of saving their futures lies in each other. As a midwife, Catherine Remington is successful in bringing new life into the world, but she's failed one too many times in finding true love. When she's accused of a murder she didn't commit, she's forced to flee to Colorado to honor a patient's dying wish by delivering a newborn infant to his father. The repentant prodigal Dylan McQuaid is finally back in Fairplay. As sheriff, he's doing his best to prove to the town he's a changed man and worthy of their trust. When a woman shows up with an infant son he didn't know he had, Dylan is left with only complicated choices on what to do next. Having grown attached to Dylan's son, Catherine doesn't want to part ways with the infant, but what she doesn't bargain for is how easily she'll fall for the charming sheriff, or how quickly the past will catch up with her and put their love and lives in danger.

What's in the Cross Reference Library? Great C.S. Lewis Biographies

The Magic Never Ends - Since The Screwtape Letters catapulted C.S. Lewis to fame in the 1940s, he has been among the world’s most widely read apologists for the Christian faith. The contributors to this book suggest that his popularity might be explained by the fact that he asked the hard questions about Christianity so directly and answered them with uncommon clarity and simplicity. But C.S. Lewis’ enduring fame can also be traced to his broad literary legacy: 

• His profound apologetic books such as Miracles, The Problem of Pain, and Mere Christianity are often considered the most readable works available on the subjects.

• In novels such as Perelandra and Out of the Silent Planet, he created new worlds to test old truths. 

• His children’s fantasies, set in the magical realm of Narnia, are among the most widely read children’s books ever. 

• His scholarly works on English literature remain standard classics in their field. 

• Compiled volumes of his speeches and essays preserve his wit and wisdom. 

Having known and scrutinized this remarkable man, the contributors to this volume help us to understand the growing interest in Lewis and his work. His stepson, Douglas Gresham, his posthumous editor Walter hooper, foremost Lewies archivist and lecturer Christopher Mitchell, and Dabney Hart share their memories and insights into the Lewis legend. They recall, for example, that Lewis’ friend J.R.R. Tolkien took him to task for writing theological books. “I wish I didn’t have to,” Lewis replied, “but until the theologians and the ordained clergy begin to communicate with ordinary people in the vernacular, in a way that they can understand, then I’m going to have to do it.” This book can help us understand how a once outspoken atheist was so successful in achieving that goal. 

A Life Observed - C.S. Lewis is one of the most influential Christian writers of our time. But while it was clear from the start that he would be a writer, it was not always clear he would become a Christian. A Life Observed tells the inspiring story of Lewis’s spiritual journey from cynical atheist to joyous Christian. Drawing on Lewis’s autobiographical works, books by those who knew him personally, and his apologetic and fictional writing, this spiritual biography brings the beloved author’s story to life while shedding light on his best-known works.

What Are Satan's Angels, And Should I Worry About Them?

You can listen to Ask The Pastor every weekday at 9:00am MST on 97.1FM Hope Radio KCMI! You can also listen and subscribe to Ask The Pastor in your favorite podcast feed. Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Stitcher, Amazon Music and most other podcast services.

This edition of Ask the Pastor features Pastors Gary Hashley and Brad Kilthau.

Gary Hashley
We are looking at another question today, helping clarify things in people's minds. And here's what came, "Christians and others often talk about good and bad, and that there is a spiritual war going on between God's angels and Satan's angels. I get God having angels, but not sure about Satan having angels. Are these what are called demons, and do I have to be worried about them?" So, to start with, we need to be reminded that Lucifer, who we came to know as Satan, the devil, the serpent, the dragon. He's called all of those in scripture. He started out as an angel. We read about this in Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel chapter 28. That's easy to remember: 14x2 = 28. But in Isaiah 14:12, "how are you fallen from heaven, oh day star, son of dawn? How are you cut down to the ground? You who laid the nation's low. And here's the answer you set in your heart, 'I will ascend to heaven above the stars of God. I'll set my throne on high. I will sit on the mount of the assembly in the far reaches of the north. I will ascend above the heights of the clouds. I will make myself like the most high.' But you are brought down to sheel, to the far reaches of the pit." We find that Lucifer was originally an angel himself, because God didn't create Satan as Satan. He didn't create demons as demons, but He did create angels as well as on earth creating humans. But He created angels, an enumerable company of angels, and they were there serving Him. And yet this Lucifer, who it would appear, was maybe the highest ranking angel in God's host of angels. According to Isaiah, he started to become proud. He started to think that, "why should I serve this God? Why can't I be God?" And he declares that he wants to be God, and God cast him from heaven. And he took with him other angels who had followed his thoughts, who had decided they wanted to follow him instead of following God. And they were cast from heaven and Lucifer, we know now as Satan, we know him as the devil. John in Revelation talks of him as the dragon, talks of him as the serpent. And that's where he came from. So he was an angel, and those who fell with him had been angels. In Revelation 12, starting at verse seven says, "now war arose in heaven: Michael and his angels fighting against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. But he was defeated and there was no longer any place for them in heaven. And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent who is called," listen to this, "the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world, he was thrown down to earth and his angels were thrown down with him." So when you hear of demons or Satan's angels, it appears from scripture. We're talking about the same group and there are angels who followed Lucifer and his rebellion. Angels who decided that Lucifer must have, they thought had a chance to dethrone God and then found out you can't dethrone God. A created being cannot dethrone their creator. And they were cast from heaven. Earlier in chapter 12 of Revelation, it talks about the dragon with his tale drug out a third of the stars. And the understanding that I've heard all my years is that third of the stars implies that one third of all of the angels God had created went with Lucifer in his rebellion. We read in the Old Testament in the days of Moses, of a rebellion that started with Korah Dathan and Abiram. And Korah decided Moses was getting too big for his britches, and that Korah ought to be in the same place Moses was in. Many people listened to Korah and decided Korah was right, and they were going to dethrone Moses. God stepped in and said, "no, don't dethrone the person I've put in charge!" And so Moses stayed in charge. And Korah, of course, that says the Earth opened up and swallowed him and his stuff. But yes, there are two types of angels now, but there was only one type of angel at creation. But there are two types of angels now. And so the question then comes about the spiritual warfare that happens between these two entities. In our last time we did this, Brad alluded to the time in Daniel, when Daniel prays and Gabriel is sent to deliver a message as God's angel, taking a message to God's man, God's prophet Daniel. And it says that Satan and his angels got in the way and there was a battle taking place until Michael shows up and leads the charge against Satan. And Gabriel then is able to go on 21 days later, earth days later, and take the message to Daniel. We read about the armor of God. It says, "we don't wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities and powers and the rulers of the darkness of this world." It says, "so put on the armor: the breastplate of righteousness and the helmet of salvation. Take the sword of the spirit." You know, "the shoes of the preparation of the gospel of peace, the belt of truth around our waist." The word of God, the sort of the spirit, the shield of faith, because there are battles going on that we never see. You know, when Elisha was surrounded by the enemy and his servant was all upset Elijah said, you know, prayed, "God open his eyes so he can see." And the hills were filled with fiery chariots and God's army was out there fighting against the armies of Satan that we never see. So yes, there are evil forces who started out as angels, but we know them now as demons led by the chief of the demons, Lucifer, who we also know as Satan, the dragon, the serpent, the wicked one. So Pastor Brad, should we be worried about these demons?

Brad Kilthau
Well, there's a lot of thought with that. And in some cases, well, we need to know where they are. When we look at the Bible, we understand that some of those demons that were cast out, that followed Satan outta heaven, were cast out and came down to this earth. We know that some of them we don't have to worry about because they're permanently bound right now. We read about that in Genesis of where these angels came and had sexual relations with daughters and men, with women, human beings. And of course, there was the offspring, and this was totally against God's will. God saw it as such a heinous, immoral sin that he bound them forever, and they are in the lowest abyss. And they will be there until the Lord decides to dump that into the lake of fire at the end of time, and so they don't get another chance. And so we don't have to worry about those angels, those fallen angels that is. But there are also the fallen angels that we think about in Revelation 9 that come out. We could call them the locust demons that are in the bottom of the Euphrates River as they obviously sinned against God in a very heinous way here on this earth. And they are cast into this abyss, but they will be released during the tribulation period as part of the fifth trumpet judgment to carry out some very hurtful things against those who are on the face of the earth. If we're believers, I'm just saying, we don't have to worry about those angels either because it will come out during the tribulation period. And as we are raptured before the tribulation, we won't be here to be seeing them. But there are still demons that are active, thriving, doing the work of Satan right now all around us. And just as you said, Gary, if we could pull back that veil, we would see that spiritual warfare. We're not fighting against flesh and blood, we're fighting against a spiritual enemy in our life. It's something I think we always have to be reminded of. What can these demons be doing to us right now? I think a lot of people think about the demon possessed people as we see in the gospel accounts of where they were cast out and and so forth. When Jesus cast the demons outta that one man, a host of demons, and they went into the swine and then they went out into the sea of Galilee and drowned there. You know, and I think a lot of people have this misconception that, well, we don't have to think about those demons anymore.

Brad Kilthau
They're not active today like they were then. I truly believe they're more active today than they've ever been because they know their time is getting shorter and shorter before their judgment comes. So how can they hurt us? Well they can cause, as we know in the Bible, certain physical and emotional and mental disorders in people. We can see that in Matthew 12 and Luke 13. They can also cause among people what we would call self mutilation. Some of the things we've looked at in the past, one of the things that's very popular was, those who were cutting themselves. And some of that's still going on today. Sometimes we wonder, where does that come from? Why would a person do that to themselves? Well, I think we've labeled everything as a psychological problem, but we need to know there's also a spiritual problem going on. And sometimes I think we're mislabeling some of that. And it is the work of demons. They're very active today in teaching false doctrine, and I think that's one of their main things. In fact, the Apostle Paul tells us in 1 Timothy 4, he says, "Now, the spirit of God expressly says in the latter times, some will depart from the faith giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons." And when we start looking at what's being taught in some of our church buildings across our country today, and we start to wonder, where could that come from? How could ministers of God, claiming to be that, standing front of his congregation and telling his people that Jesus was not born of a virgin. To stand in front of his people and say, "well, Jesus resurrected from the grave, but it wasn't physical. It was only spiritual." And we gotta think, where could you get such a thought? How could you stand in front of people and share that? Well, the only way you could do that, is if you are being misled by, I think, a demonic presence. That there has to be an influence of a demonic spirit that's misguiding and teaching false doctrine through people as a mouthpiece for them. They can hinder spiritual activity. I know that those of us who've sought to lead people to Christ, it invariably happens. And I know, Gary, you could attest to this too. You know, when you're preaching a message and you're getting down to the heart of the message, you're ready to drive the point home that people need to recognize Christ as Savior and Lord of their life. And you're bringing it right to that point, and all of a sudden hymnals start to drop on the floor, or it seems like somebody pinches a baby about that time. And the whole place goes to confusion and immediately as a servant in the ministry, we recognize what that is. That's a spiritual attack. It's trying to hinder the sharing of the gospel that happens over and over. We gotta also remember that demons can do miracles. They're limited in their ability to do that, but they can do some very deceiving miracles. One of the things that I thought of a while back is what we call the apparitions of Mary. And there's a rise on this right now in the world of where many people are truly believing that they are seeing Mary, the mother of our Lord. As we think about in the Bible, they're seeing Mary appear before them, and then she starts to share some things. She says, "I'm speaking for God to you." Most often, what she is saying to these people is, "you need to pray to me. You need to confess your sin to me. You need to come to me. I'm gonna be the intern between you and God." And we know that's false. We know that's not true. It is only Jesus who is the intercessor between us and the Father. How can that be? Well, demonic beings can actually present themselves in a physical form to look like a human being and be used to share false things. And people will believe this because, again, they've been deceived. And then sometimes, yeah, they can invade and possess certain humans. And that still happens today. And I know we like to label everything as a physical or a mental issue, but we need to look sometimes further. There could also be demonic possession of people today. Some people have asked me in the past, they've said, "So, Pastor Brad, have you ever seen a demon possessed person in your years in ministry?" And I've gotta say, "yes, I have." And when that person looked at me and spoke to me, I immediately recognized that it was a demonic presence. And of course, how do you defend against that? It comes back to what you said again Gary, Ephesians 6, it is through prayer and through the word. Through prayer and through the word. The word is our offensive weapon against a demonic presence in our lives.

Gary Hashley
Well, I hope that helps answer that question about Satan's angels and demons. Are we talking about the same thing? And I believe the answer is, "yes," we are. And there's much to learn and there's much to grow in our faith, because greater is He who is in us than he who is in the world.

What's in the Cross Reference Library? Unexpected Answers to Unexpected Questions

A Window to the World - Megan Diamond, an introverted seven-year-old, has decided that being “invisible” is all she can ever hope to be. That is, until Jen Lovett walks into her life. Her new, uninhibited friend brings Megan out of her shell and into a new—and sometimes dangerous—way of viewing the world. Soon, Megan’s shyness is replaced with self-confidence. When sudden tragedy strikes, the world is turned upside down for both Jen’s and Megan’s families, and as the years pass, the effects of that one horrible day continue to cause heartache. And then an unexpected phone call changes everything and becomes an invitation to have restored what has been lost. But with the invitation comes the painful reopening of old wounds. Megan must ask herself what part a troubled past plays in shaping who we become, how we view the world, and—more importantly—how we view the God who is in control of our destiny. Is the risk of staying in the bud worth the pain, or were roses—and people—made to blossom?

Miracle At The Higher Grounds Cafe - Chelsea Chambers is on her own. After a public split from her NFL superstar husband, Chelsea takes a bold step out of the limelight and behind the counter of the Higher Grounds Cafe, an old-fashioned coffee shop in dire need of reinvention. But when her courage, expert planning, and out-of-this-world cupcakes fail to pay the bills, this newly single mom finds herself desperate for help. Better yet, a miracle. Then a curious stranger lands at Chelsea’s door, and with him, an even more curious string of events. Soon, customers are flocking to the Higher Grounds Cafe, and not just for the cupcakes and cappuccino. They’ve come for the internet connection to the divine. Now the cafe has become the go-to place for people in search of answers to life’s biggest questions. When a catastrophe strikes and her ex comes calling, Chelsea begins to wonder if the whole universe is conspiring against her quest to make it on her own. After a shocking discovery opens her eyes to the unseen world around her, Chelsea finds the courage to ask God a question of her own. Heaven answers in a most unexpected way.

Life is full of unexpected circumstances that help us grow. Just like us in our everyday lives, the main characters in the two novels that I chose to tell you about this week, discover that for themselves. At the beginning of A Window to the World we are shown the origin of a very special friendship. First we are introduced to a young Megan Diamond who is struggling as a shy 1st grader. In her young age, Megan had a lot of trouble making friends. But that was about to change when the new girl in her class, Jennifer Lovett, starts treating Megan like she is visible. On that first day of school alone, Megan and Jen become instant friends. You know, a very similar thing happened to me, but instead of the first grade, I met one of my best friends in the eighth grade. For most of my school years, I was really bad at making friends and I always felt invisible like Megan did in this novel. But then everything changed for me that fall of 2016 when I met my very own Jennifer Lovett. I actually thought it was kinda crazy when I started reading chapter one, cause the personalities of the two girls as of the first two pages reminded me of me and my friend Aubrey right away. The two of us couldn’t have been more different. I’m an extreme Introvert, while she’s an active Extrovert. Nevertheless, we made sure to lift each other up everyday as junior high and high school tried its hardest to bring us down. The other interesting thing that I seem to have in common with Megan, is how her newfound friend seemed to gradually bring her out of her shell. But unfortunately, that is where our similarities diverge. My friendship with Aubrey had blessed me in several ways. She’s a part of a great Christian family, which introduced me to the church I go to today. And if she hadn’t encouraged me to step out of my shell a little bit, I wouldn’t be able to do my job that I have today. For Megan though, in A Window to the World, her friend Jen begins to have a bad influence on her as they grow older, and what’s worse is that Jen’s family doesn’t believe in God. As an adult, Megan starts asking hard questions, and as you read this novel by Susan Meissner, you’ll discover the answer she receives. 

As I looked through our library for a novel for this week’s blog post, I found Miracle at the Higher Grounds Cafe by Max Lucado. His main character Chelsea Chambers is also asking questions that she hopes will be answered soon. Her cafe has been in her family for years and has become her passion as well. But income is barely coming in, and Chelsea faces the threat of getting closed down. In Lucado's unique way of storytelling, he brings about a special answer to her prayers. So I guess the point that I wanted to make in today's post was that when your pastor says that the Lord does answer prayer and that He works in mysterious ways, He does. He loves each and every one of us, and wants to help us grow through the trials and confusion. And I loved how these two novels reminded us of that. So come on into the Cross Reference Library and check out what we have in store!

What Are The Best Bible Translations? Part 1 - Ask the Pastor

You can listen to Ask The Pastor every weekday at 9:00am MST on 97.1FM Hope Radio KCMI! You can also listen and subscribe to Ask The Pastor in your favorite podcast feed. Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Stitcher, Amazon Music and most other podcast services.

This edition of Ask the Pastor features Pastors Ben Cline, Johnathan Hernandez, and Gary Schick.

Gary Schick
So great to be with you guys and great to be back with our listeners again today. We're gonna do a follow up today to a question that we covered a couple weeks ago. Somebody asked a little bit of a translation question about some names in the Bible, and as part of that conversation we got just kind of talking about a little bit about different translations, which is something people often wonder about. I think probably, I wish personally, I don't know, but you guys, I wish people came to me with more Bible questions. I've never met a pastor who said, "oh, people are constantly barraging me with Bible questions." So...I love doing this program. But one of the questions that I've probably been asked the most is, "well, pastor, what's the right translation? Or the best translation? Or what would be a good translation for me?" And so I think that'd be a good one for us to just kind of talk about today.

Jonathan Hernandez
Yeah. So, I think that is definitely one of the most questions I would get too is, "what translation should I read or which one should I stay away from?" And so today, I guess I'll kind of go through something that when I, that was probably one of the questions I asked too when I first became a believer too. Is, "pastor, what translations should I read?" And so, you know, back then, great question. You know, he threw out a couple, but I had a friend that actually drew me out a chart I guess, so to speak. And so that's kind of what I've used now. And I don't have all the different English translations on here. I guess at some point I could start adding and making this list a little bit better.

Gary Schick
There's always more!

Jonathan Hernandez
Yeah. So I kind of have just the ones that he had showed me back then. And so imagine, like, a straight line, and on one side of the line you'd have, like, your literal translations. And so the literal translation is an attempt to translate by keeping as close as possible to the exact words and phrasing of their original language. So they would take the original language and make sure that they stay true to that. And then on the other, the far side of this, you would have the free translation. This would be more of like that paraphrasing translation. And then in the middle you kind of have, what my friend would call, was the dynamic equivalence. And this was an attempt to translate the word, and it would be close, but it was kind of more of like a word for word. And a lot of times that's kind of tough because, in one, you know, language they have a word, but that word means many things. English should be just kind of, you know, like love! You know, like love, we just think 'love' and, you know, in other languages there's many types of love. And so, those can kind of get kind of tough as you start translating through that. And so, you know, if we look at some of these translations you look at, like the King James version, that would be a literal translation of the scriptures. NIV would be more of that dynamic equivalence. And I guess the NIV 1984 , I should say. Cause you go with some of this new NIV and I would start putting that more of kind of like that paraphrase. Cause some of it's really not where it needs to be anymore. So if you're going NIV, I would definitely try to make sure you find a 1984 version of it. If you can.

Gary Schick
You gotta go for a used though, cause they won't sell them in the regular stores anymore.

Jonathan Hernandez
Yeah. They won't sell that anymore. And so if we were looking at a paraphrase version, this would be, I guess, the most popular one would be the Message Bible. And, you know, that's a good one to read through. But that's not one that I usually use to study through. For me, I usually use either the, New King James, more than likely that's what I'll have in front of me. I'll go back and read through many of them, but I usually study out of more of the New King James. That's kind of the direction I guess I've gone, because that's what I was given when I started, when I became a believer. Everybody kept on handing me, either the King James or the New King James version. Those are the ones that were constantly given to me. So I guess, if we look at the first complete English language version of the Bible, was John Wycliffe's in 1382, I think is what it's what it said, he was kind of accredited for that complete translation of the English Bible. You'd also have, like, William Tindell, that was the 1500's I believe, kind of where he was translating the scriptures. And so, yeah. So for me, I mean, that's kind of the Bible that I've kind of stuck with. And then I've had, like, the Message Bible, I've used that to kind of further study I guess, and not as my main study. So, yeah.

Ben Cline
Yeah, thanks for that. That's a good overview of, you know, the different styles of translation that there are. And, you know, it's funny cause Gary, I don't know what translation that you use, but we may all use different translations. You know, the one that I kind of tend to stick to is the New American Standard Bible. But that's one of the literal translations. And the hard part about some of those is that, you know, especially with that particular translation, is that reading through it is kind of choppy, you know, in English, it's sort of abrupt. And so it is nice to be able to go to some of those other translations. Like the New Living Translation is one that I use just for listening to or for reading, you know, in my own personal devotion time, because you know, it flows in English better. So there's a lot of different choices out there. I guess some of the things that I wanted to talk about, you know, translation is really kind of a funny thing when you're translating from one language to another. I remembered a story. We went on a missions trip to Mexico and we were visiting a church down there, and the pastor asked me if I wanted to preach. Well, I don't speak a lick of Spanish, right? So, I had to have somebody who lived there, who knew English well enough, that he could, you know, translate as I was teaching that morning. But the interesting thing was that we had to sit down and go through the notes that I had written out and all that stuff because there's so many, you know, idioms and, oh, what's the other word? Figures of speech, that we use in English. And every language is like 'that' actually. They have their own idioms and their own figures of speech that they use. But we had to kind of try to take all of those things out and make them, you know, words that he could translate, you know, from English into Spanish as I was teaching. So that's just kind of the way that it goes. And so you have all these ideas that are, you know, from the Hebrew culture and, you know, ideas that come up in the Greek language that don't exactly translate over to English. And so, you know, they do scholarly study to try to figure out how to best get it down on paper in English. But, you know, I just had some thoughts, you know, about the different translations. And these are kind of more, you know, personal thoughts, things that I've learned over the years. And one of those things is to just be really careful when, in your understanding of what a translation is, there are, you know, some false ideas going around. You can't trust certain English translations, because the idea behind, you know, their understanding of how a translation is coming about, especially the newer translations, is that they're translating from one English translation to another, and making an updated version of it or whatever. But, you know, the truth of the matter is, the good English translations that we have, they're all happening from the original languages. From the original manuscripts. And so that's something that is just really important for us to understand, that those ideas that are being translated, the words that are being translated over are not from English to English. They're being done from the Greek and the Hebrew and the Aramaic over to English. And so, just one idea to be aware of. And then the other thing too is, you know, be careful of the idea that there's only one English translation that can be considered the word of God. You know, I know that there's, I might be stepping on some toes by saying that, but there's certain, you know, arenas that you can be in where they say, "this is the only trusted English version of the Bible." So don't go into that, because they're all, you know, a lot of these translations are done very carefully, and they have, a lot of work that goes into them and they really are trying to get that best meaning from the original languages. And then we also have, you know, I don't know if everybody's aware of this, but everybody has access to the resources if you have a word that you're, you know, getting really hung up on, there's resources online to be able to go to and find out the definitions and the different meanings of this word back in the original languages. And so, you know, that's not something that was readily available 20 years ago, but it is now for sure. And so, I guess the last thing that I wanted to talk about was just, you know, as the body of Christ, let's make sure to not let differences in opinion over Bible translations get in the way of us being unified as the body of Christ. You know, we don't want to let that cause divisions at all. So, just some thoughts.

Gary Schick
Yeah, really good thoughts, guys. You know, just in real simple, I think, in terms of answer to the question, which, what is the best translation or the best one for me? It's very simply, listeners, the best translation is the one you're going to read. It's the one you're gonna pick up and read. I'll tell you my own experience as a kid; I was handed, in primary one, I don't know what even that was, you know, somewhere between kindergarten and first grade, I was handed a little King James Bible. I've still got it. And in the cover plate it says, "thy word is a lamp unto my feet and a light unto my path." And oh, how I wish that I had read more out of that first Bible I was handed, unfortunately, as a rambunctious kid in Sunday school. We probably used our Bibles more for knocking each other over the head and really getting some talking to about that. "What? The word of God? What are your kids doing? But when I actually reached a point in my life when I was ready and hungry to read and I opened it, I mean, I made the same mistakes so many people do. The Bible's not just a book that you necessarily want to go cover to cover. It's a bunch of little books and probably best to start in the New Testament. But no, I started in Genesis 1 in the King James version, and as a, I don't know, maybe sixth, seventh grader at that point in my life, I was soon lost. And so I went to the Christian bookstore and there on the shelf were all of these translations. Some of the ones that you guys have already mentioned. The New American Standard was the one, like they were teaching in the seminaries. But again, a little bit harder language. There was the Revised Standard Version, which was a little smoother. I didn't know, but I looked at all of them. And the one I settled on at that point in my life was the Living Bible. And it was at a, was it a perfect translation? It wasn't even a translation, it was a paraphrase. But I'll tell you what listeners, I read it from cover to cover, and as I began to go, if you look through my old copy of the Living Bible, you'll see the opening pages are white. And then you start to see some red lines in there where I start to underline some verses. And then you see, by the time I, and I still did it the hard way. It took me three years; Genesis 1 to the end. Actually, I started in Revelation, because Hal Lindsay was a big deal back then, and I wanted to know how everything was gonna end. And I'll tell you what, if anything will cure you of being just totally, gobsmacked over what is, how are the end times gonna play out? Just read Revelation, and it just blew me away. I was like, "yeah, okay." And now I went back to Genesis 1 and worked my way back there again. But by the time I'm in the New Testament, the pages are, it's just like, "who bled on these?" You know, there's just all different colors. And as I was outlining and highlighting and underlining, it just became such a rich experience for me. And then from there I worked my way into, I guess what you might call, a better word for word translation. I guess we just want to come back to once again, what is the best translation or the best one for me, the Bible you're going to read.

What's in the Cross Reference Library? Helpful Books on Staying Financially Well

God is my Coach - How do I know I’m doing the right thing when there are no clear answers? How can I be confident I’m moving in the right direction? I’m not satisfied with where I am, yet I’m not sure what to do next. Do these questions sound familiar? If so, you’re in the “gray zone.” In GOD IS MY COACH, business leadership coach and bestselling author Larry Julian shows you how to navigate the “gray zone”---those defining moments where we face dilemmas and decisions that don’t have black-and-white solutions. In the “gray zone” we are filled with unanswered questions, ambiguity, and uncertainty. If you feel stuck in the “gray zone,” take heart. There is hope in this principle at the core of Julian's message: “Our true greatness lies within the gray. Uncertainty is the very catalyst to living a significant life and successfully leading others.” Larry Julian guides us through his practical eight-step coaching process, teaching us how to live and lead in the context of uncertainty rather than becoming paralyzed by it. Through Julian’s coaching process we will discover guidance in the gray and clarity in the chaos, and we will begin making wise, impactful decisions that shape our destinies. 

The Blessed Life - Our culture is saturated with false teaching on what it means to be blessed, but what does the Bible say about it? How can we truly live blessed lives? With humor, passion, and clarity, pastor and bestselling author Robert Morris presents the secrets of living a blessed life both financially and spiritually. He shows that when God changes your heart from selfishness to generosity, every part of your life-journey is affected. This book will transform your life for the better, bringing you guaranteed financial results. But it will do more than that. It will change every area of your life: marriage, family, health and relationships. For when God changes your heart from selfishness to generosity, every part of your life-journey is affected. If all believers followed the practical guidance of The Blessed Life, every church could be built, every nation would have an abundance of missionaries—and all would reap the benefits of having a generous heart.  

One of the most difficult things to juggle in life is our finances. We get jobs so we can provide for ourselves and our families. But how do we come upon some of these jobs? Maybe you’re in a position that you went through several years of college to earn. Or maybe you made a step-by-step plan with goals, budgets, etc. And now you have that dream job that you worked so hard for. Another possibility though, could be that income isn’t coming in like you need it to, student loans are kicking you in the butt, and you’ve had to pick up a couple more jobs to make ends meet. Did you identify with any of those? If you did, you are not alone. There are many people all over, who have most likely walked those roads, or even similar ones too. Well in the book, God is my Coach, author Larry Julian helps us take another approach. Is there something that you’re gifted in? Something that you are passionate about God has put on your heart to share with the world in your own unique way? In chapter one Larry Julian says, “When you use your gifts in response to God’s call, your work becomes a joyful form of worship. Your work is an expression of your giftedness; it’s your way of working out the gifts God worked into you.” And that quote also reminds me of Ephesians 2:10 which says, “For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.” So whatever gifts you have that you’re not sure you can contribute to your workplace, remember that every part of your personality and your giftedness is God’s handiwork. A little later on, Julian references a sculptor named Rosalind Cook, and I found something that she said very inspiring. “His hands guided mine to shape that small study because He knew exactly what His purpose was.” The other book that I picked out for this week was The Blessed Life by Robert Morris. Something that he stressed a lot on, was when it comes to our finances, it is very important to trust in our Lord. Morris reminds about this fact by saying, “At four separate points in the book of Deuteronomy, God tells those who will obey Him that He will bless everything to which they put their hands (found in Deuteronomy 14:29, 15:10, 23:20, and 28:8,12).” I recommend God Is My Coach and The Blessed Life to anyone who is confused about what they are supposed to do next with finances or work.

An Explanation of Slavery in the Old Testament - Ask the Pastor

You can listen to Ask The Pastor every weekday at 9:00am MST on 97.1FM Hope Radio KCMI! You can also listen and subscribe to Ask The Pastor in your favorite podcast feed. Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Stitcher, Amazon Music and most other podcast services.

This edition of Ask the Pastor features Pastors Ben Cline, Johnathan Hernandez, and Gary Schick.

Gary Schick
Hey guys, it's great to be together. We've got another interesting question that was passed along to me. Exodus 21:1-6 is the passage that's being asked about, and Jonathan's gonna read it to us. But the question is, "can you talk about slavery and the Bible's seeming endorsement of it? Also, it seems strange that a man would have to choose between his freedom from slavery and keeping his wife and kids. What does it mean that the slave's wife and children belong to the slave's master? Is there a spiritual truth that God is trying to show us here? I'm confused."

Jonathan Hernandez
Yeah. So Exodus 21:1 starts out, "now these are the judgements which you shall set before them. If you buy a Hebrew servant, he shall serve six years, and in the seventh, he shall go free and pay nothing. If he comes in by himself, he shall go out by himself. If he comes in married, then his wife shall go out with him. If his master has given him a wife and she has bore him sons or daughters, the wife and the children shall be her masters, and he shall go out by himself. But if the servant plainly says, 'I love my master, my wife, my children, I will not go out free.' Then his master shall bring him to the judges. He shall also bring him to the door or to the doorpost, and his master shall pierce his ear with an awl and he shall serve him forever." So that's the scripture that they gave us for today. And I think for me, a lot of times when we look at the scriptures, we look at them through our current circumstances, or the eyes that we've seen here with slavery. When we hear "slavery," we think of it as how we've grown up learning about it, I guess, through school. And, you know, how slavery was in the early times of the United States history and stuff kind of like that. And so we think of it, now slavery is evil like, I hope people don't think, as we talk through this, that we're trying to justify something or anything. But, you know, slavery in itself is evil. And it's not something that should be happening. And hopefully it's not happening currently, but we know that it is happening all across the world right now. So we look at this and we see that slavery, I guess, in the Bible we see it throughout the Bible, happening. And slavery was, I guess, permissible in certain situations as long as slaves were regarded as a full member of the community. And we kind of see this in Genesis 17:12, it says, "throughout your generation, every male amongst you shall be circumcised when he is eight days old, including the slave born in your house and the one bought with your money from any foreigner. And so you see that even slaves were having to walk through the same things that the Hebrews were having to walk through. The slaves would also get the opportunity to have the same amount of rest. It says, "work six days and on the seventh day, rest." And so even the slaves were held to that standard. Like, "you're gonna work six days for me as a slave owner, right? But on that seventh day, we're gonna give you rest and you're gonna be able to recuperate, hopefully and be able to go on." They were to be treated like humans, cause that's, you know, even though they're slaves, they're still humans. And I think that's some of the difference that maybe we're seeing in the slavery that we've seen happen in the early US history; is a lot of the slaves weren't seen as human. You know, so we dehumanize things so that way it's easier to do things that maybe we shouldn't be doing to other humans. Not saying that back then in the new or in the Old Testament, that people weren't dehumanized. I think you were still seeing some of these things happening. And so I think you see, like, even here, like it talks about the Hebrew slave. They're gonna work six years for that person, and then in the seventh year they're gonna be free. And within our question it talks about, "what about the women and the children?" And I was reading through a bunch of different forums, I guess, on this yet last night and trying to, "okay, where are we seeing this." I've seen some people talk about, "okay, in this passage it doesn't say forever. And so maybe they're serving their six years, and then they'll be free on their seventh. But it doesn't really support that either." And so you kind of have this back and forth on that. What does that mean? And I guess for the way I read that, if the husband was willing to stay and become a slave forever, more than likely his wife and his children were the master's forever. Cause otherwise, why would you, you know, stay knowing that, "hey, your wife's gonna be out in two years," you know? Like maybe you'd, you know, work close to that, to where your family's a slave at, so that way you could be with them. But I guess I'm not really sure on that. So yeah.

Ben Cline
Yeah, these are, you know, difficult questions to deal with and sometimes to understand even from studying through what scripture has to say. But again, it goes a lot to the historical context of what's going on here. And again, like you said Jonathan, we have, you know, such a tendency to look at things through the context of how we understand things in our modern times. And, you know, in our modern times we understand slavery to be, basically, kidnapping somebody and owning them, which again, is evil. It's not okay. But a lot of times, the slavery or the servanthood that is being talked about in the Old Testament, and especially here in this passage in Exodus 21 this is talking about, you know, slavery within the Hebrew culture. And so this is, you know, somebody who owes somebody else a debt, and basically sells themself into servanthood to a person that's called their master now. And so this is something that we could compare to, you know, like indentured servitude. So they're basically there to pay off a debt. And the thing that I love about this passage of scripture, where God is establishing the law, is that he's taking something that the world has been doing for, you know, so long. You see a lot of examples of slavery in scripture of things that were happening in the world, where slavery was taking place. But what God is doing here is, He's regulating it and He's helping people to see that they can't just, you know, do whatever they want and take advantage of other people. And so He's really taking some time to establish some rules here and actually establish some rights, or some basic rights for the slaves, or the servants. And so, you know, slavery is fundamentally different in some instances, you know, from our modern slavery versus what was happening back in the time when this was written. And the thing that was happening that's so interesting, as you read through this passage a little bit further in Exodus 21, the modern slavery that we understand today is expressively forbidden. It's in verse 16 of Exodus 21 that the kidnapping and selling of people is expressively forbidden. And so modern slavery was expressly breaking that law that was established by God. But the interesting thing as you're looking, you know, at slavery in the Bible, is that oftentimes it was like this economic arrangement. And one big difference is that it was never one race feeling a superiority over another race. And that being the determining factor as to whether or not somebody could be a slave. And so that was, you know, a huge difference between what was happening back then and what's happening, not what's currently happening, but I guess there's probably still a lot of slavery that's taking place in different forms in the world now. But you know, what you were talking about, Jonathan, in the early days of the United States, that's exactly what was happening. You know, people were being taken and people were being sold as possessions, which was not okay. But God was establishing here ways for people to relate to each other in ways that were fair. And so there's that six years, you know? They're only allowed to have somebody serve for six years in order to pay off a debt. You know, a married couple, if they went in, if the husband was sold into slavery to pay off a debt, if he sold himself into slavery and he was already married, then they were treated as a married couple. They were treated as part of the community. They were treated as temporary residents of the community. And then when his debt was paid off after that six years, he got to go free with his wife. But then there's that situation where a man marries a woman after he has sold himself into this servitude and he now has a choice to make at the end of that six years. And, you know, if you have a person who truly loves his wife, he's gonna stick with her, right? And so God is giving them this option as a way to show people, you know, God's love and His mercy and His justice. He's giving them a way to be able to stay together. And so, you know, God really is just establishing order. He's allowing a way for families to stay together. He's showing His mercy and His love in establishing these laws, really. And that's probably just some of the answer.

Gary Schick
Right, and there's so much. But I think you guys have really laid the groundwork well. I mean, first of all, differentiating between, really, what's happening even in a lot of Islamic countries to this day where people are, you know, being taken. And we hear about human trafficking, again, right here in the United States. Quite a lot of it. But again, it's people being taken into slavery, and with no way out. And it's completely under the radar of the law, at least, if it's going on here in this country and in other countries. I guess it is legalized, but still in a very bad way. Whereas in the world of biblical times, you know, first of all, the economics of that world were so much different. Today, if you're poor, there are safety nets. You may or may not choose to take them, but they're there. Back then, if you were poor, and had no means to provide for yourself, you would starve to death. Or if you would fall into debt, there was no, you know, way to get out of that. There were no bankruptcy laws that would set you free from it. And I don't even know that there were debtor prisons, so how do you do this? So yeah, by all means, by one of the primary ways that people, and it would be a temporary thing, was to sell yourself. Many people came to this country that way, people forget, many people sold themselves as indentured servants to come here. You know, Englishmen selling themselves to their fellow Englishmen to work in their estates until they had paid off their debt, and would often go on from there and build up their own estates. So I don't, you know, think people really would have a problem with that. At least the idea of this was a temporary means. And then the other thing is, what did it mean to be a slave in the house? Again, we tend to think of the United States model, where the slaves quarters were, you know, kind of down the field. They were very, very poor quarters. The master lives up on the hill, in the mansion. Take a look at Abraham and Sarah, with her maid servant. Take a look at Isaac, Mairus, Leah and Rachel with their maid servants. They're not out in a separate part of the property, they are part of the household. The servants were part of the household. They have, as you guys pointed out, the same rights. And they had responsibilities, but they were, in a sense, part of the family without the rights of full heirs of the family. If we'd have read further into the scripture that you read to us, Jonathan, we would've seen that sometimes a woman from a poor circumstance, her parents may sell, in a sense, sell her to someone as sort of a secondary wife. But if she's not pleasing to him or, you know, maybe she was forgotten as a bride to his son. If that doesn't work out, then she is to be set free, free and clear. I mean, as you pointed out, unlike in the United States, where people were treated as possessions, people remain people in scriptures. And let's remember where this is being written in Exodus, the Hebrews themselves have just come out of slavery. It was, as you both pointed out, just sort of part of the world's system of that time. And so God is moving them towards seeing the humanity in every human. The bride that's provided for by the master is still part of his house. That was the problem. The guy who comes in from outside, and now he's going to basically take away from that household. But he has the option to become a part of that household for life. And in terms of the spiritual application, you know, isn't it in a an interesting thing in the New Testament, we do see even more of the seeds of moving away from slavery. For example, where Paul writes to Philemon about Onesimus, who was a runaway slave, who's now become a Christian and now is a brother in Christ. "He not only asks that you forgive him," in other words, not give him the punishment. Which could have been either a severe beating or death. "But rather receive him back as a brother." And in fact, Paul indicates, and I know you're gonna do even more, indicating basically, "Philemon, it's time to set an Onesimus free." Paul couldn't quite come out and directly say that because of the law of the Roman Empire at that time. But he could sure point Philemon in that direction, which he clearly does. And so this freedom, and it's interesting what the New Testament says to slaves and masters. He says, "slaves, you're free in Christ. You are not serving your earthly master. You're serving Jesus. So regardless of how you're treated by your earthly master do what you do as unto God." And we translate that without even thinking in our context to people working in the workplace, "regardless of your workplace, your boss, those around you, You do what you do as unto the Lord." On the other hand, Paul says to those who are free, the masters, "and you are yourselves enslaved to a heavenly master, and so you treat these others under your authority, under your workspace with the dignity that that is there due." And isn't it interesting then when, for example, James and Jude and, you know, these guys, they're writing the New Testament letters, they identify themselves as a slave of Christ. You know, a servant of Christ, bond slave of Christ, someone who is wholly belongs to the Lord, has become fully His man and fully His representative in the world. And so, you know, and those are some of the positives of that kind of relationship in that time period. They were part of the house, they were obligated to the house. They were to be fully provided for by the house. And they were full representatives of the house when they were sent out on an errand, on a mission with a message. And that is, we are sons of the living God and daughters of the living God through faith in Christ. But we are also his servants, his emissaries, his ambassadors. So is scripture endorsing it? No, it's not endorsing any of the bad, but it's moving the reality of what was going on in the world toward God's ideal for mankind. And also giving us some pictures of how we relate to one another and how we need to be fully God's people. And represent Him well and serve Him well in all things.

What's New in the Cross Reference Library?

Not What You Think - The Bible is seen by many contemporary readers as intolerant, outdated, out of step with societal norms at best, and a tool of oppression at worst. In this earnest and illuminating read, Michael and Lauren McAfee honestly wrestle with the relevance of this ancient book in our modern world and raise a few questions of their own: 

• What if we cleared the deck of our preconceptions and encountered this book anew?

• What if we came to this book with the understanding that our questions are not inappropriate but encouraged? 

• And what if these pages offered less of a morality to master and more of a story to join, a story with an unexpected plot twist that provides everything we need? 

Growing up in church, Michael and Lauren spent part of their twenties finding their way in New York City, and today they’re shaping their careers while pursuing doctoral studies in theology and ethics. Along the way, they’ve  had to wrangle questions about why, where, and how the most controversial book in history fits in our world today. Not What You Think is an invitation to reexamine the place of millennials in the world and the place of Scripture in our lives. Come and see for yourself, and maybe even be surprised. 

Lies Men Believe - You are being hunted. Like a seasoned angler, our enemy opens his tackle box and selects the lure most likely to attract his intended prey…and sometimes it’s the bait you and I are least likely to consider a big deal. But each lie—about God, ourselves, sin, work, family, money, and more—we bite on, ambushes our hearts and makes us a little less free. So it’s time to embrace Jesus—the Savior—and humbly ask Him to fill us with His Spirit and fight back for us. It’s time to uncover Satan's schemes and then wield the key weapon God has given us in this battle—the Truth. If you can’t shake the feeling that your life isn’t turning out as you had hoped and you want more, and if you’re ready to root out the lies the enemy is throwing your way…you’re ready for this book. You were made for freedom. Here’s your ticket to get there. 

The Warrior Maiden - When Mulan takes her father’s place in battle against the besieging Teutonic Knights, she realizes she has been preparing for this journey her whole life—and that her life, and her mother’s, depends on her success. As the adopted daughter of poor parents, Mulan has little power in the world. If she can’t prove herself on the battlefield, she could face death—or, perhaps worse, marriage to the village butcher. Disguised as a young man, Mulan meets the German duke’s son, Wolfgang, who is determined to save his people even if it means fighting against his own brother. Wolfgang is exasperated by the new soldier who seems to be one step away from disaster at all times—or showing him up in embarrassing ways. From rivals to reluctant friends, Mulan and Wolfgang begin to share secrets. But war is an uncertain time and dreams can die as quickly as they are born. When Mulan receives word of danger back home, she must make the ultimate choice. Can she be the son her bitter father never had? Or will she become the strong young woman she was created to be? This fresh reimagining of the classic tale takes us to fifteenth-century Lithuania where both love and war challenge the strongest of hearts. 

What's New in the Cross Reference Library? Ted Dekker Reads!

Blink of an Eye - Miriam is a Saudi princess promised to another, a pawn in a political struggle that could shift the balance of power in the Middle East. Seth is a certified genius with a head full of numbers, a life full of baggage, and an attitude born on the waves of the Pacific. Cultures collide when they find themselves thrown together as fugitives is a high-stakes chase across Southern California. A growing attraction and a search for answers fuel their fight to survive…but with no sleep and a massive manhunt steadily closing in, their chances of surviving any future are razor thin. 

Forbidden - Many years have passed since civilization’s brush with apocalypse. The world’s greatest threats have all been silenced. There is no anger, no hatred, no war. There is only perfect peace…and fear. But a terrible secret has been closely guarded for centuries: Every single soul walking the earth, though in appearance totally normal, is actually dead, long ago genetically stripped of true humanity. Fleeing pursuit, with only moments to live, a young man named Rom stumbles into possession of a vial of blood and a piece of cryptic writing. When consumed, the blood will bring him back to life. When decoded, the message will lead him on a perilous journey that will require him to abandon everything he has ever known and awaken humanity to the transforming power of true life and love. But the blood will also resurrect hatred, ambition, and greed. Set in a terrifying, medieval future, where grim pageantry masks death, this tale of dark desires and staggering stakes peels back the layers of the heart for all who dare to take the ride.

Why Is James Translated That Way Instead of Being Jacob As It Is In The OT?

You can listen to Ask The Pastor every weekday at 9:00am MST on 97.1FM Hope Radio KCMI! You can also listen and subscribe to Ask The Pastor in your favorite podcast feed. Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Stitcher, Amazon Music and most other podcast services.

This edition of Ask the Pastor features Pastors Ben Cline, Johnathan Hernandez and Gary Schick.

Gary Schick
I don't know guys, I think the questions that Russ is, is giving us are getting harder, do you think? So maybe instead of Ask the Pastor, we should call it Stump the Chump.

Jonathan Hernandez
Yeah. I've been stumped a few times.

Gary Schick
But definitely, it sends us digging into the word and that's always a good thing. So here's the question he sent us this week, "Hello guys. Someone told me this last week that the name James in scripture is actually translated as Jacob in the Greek." Which of course the New Testament was written in Greek. The Old Testament was written in Hebrew and Aramaic, mostly Hebrew. Then they asked me, "why does it show up as James in our Bible and not Jacob? Feel free to tackle this if you would like and maybe discuss further the translation of the scripture from the original languages. Thanks, Russ." So, as the questions get harder, I hand it off to Jonathan to get us started.

Jonathan Hernandez
Well, as much as I wish I was a Greek scholar, I'm unfortunately not, and so, I'm not gonna try to say some of these names in Greek cause I'm not gonna be very good at it. So from what I was able to gather, I guess there's kind of a couple trains of thought when we look at, why is James not called Jacob in the New Testament? One interesting one that I came across, was that as King James was having the Bible translated, he would rather have the name James in there instead of Jacob. Cause obviously, his name was James. I don't know how much truth is to that one, but I felt that it was pretty interesting as I was digging in. I keep seeing that over and over again, but there's actually nothing that says, "here's the truth behind that or anything." So I just thought that was kind of interesting. As I was digging through some stuff, and people even had YouTube videos about that train of thought, and so I thought those were kind of interesting as I was as digging through So, as we looked, I guess look at the name James, it actually comes out of the name Jacob. And so from what I understand, I guess, and this timeframe, there would've been a lot of people with the name Jacob, cause that's their, you know, kind of an ancestry name. Just like some of you guys, you know? Maybe you have somebody that was part of your family and then everybody's name was derived from that same thing. Like, my dad's name is Peter, and so his dad's name is Peter. My brother's name is Peter, and my brother's son's name is Peter. And so you kind of have this generational name that's going through, and I think this is kind of that same place. Where we see this name Jacob that kind of just was handed down through the generations. And so, as they have this name keep going through, and then as you have these new cultures coming into the land, you kind of have this name kind of start being changed into James over time. And so that's kind of how I was seeing that. Just kind of move through the different time frames and, you know, the Latin culture I guess. Or the different Greek culture coming in and kind of making the name move from, I don't know how to say it, I guess Lavos? I guess that's how they pronouce Lakovos? And that was the, you know, the name kind of just being translated as James rather than Jacob, which, how do you say it was? Lakovos? And so, yeah. See, my Greek's not the best. Sorry. But yeah, so that's kind of how I was understanding this. Just, from that time it just kind of formed into James and so yeah.

Ben Cline
Yeah, it's really interesting just the way that words work over the course of time. You know, one of the things that we see happen every year is that our English Dictionary adopts new language. And a lot of times, those words are developed from words that already exist. But, you know, it's interesting just thinking about the transformation of Jacob into James over the course of time. And one of the things, I think that Jonathan and I were using some of the same resources, so this is good. But, you know, one of the things that they talk about is, that there was so much Greek influence on the language and on the culture during the time of Jesus, that some of these things started to happen. And they talk about how this is a good example of a word getting Greek sized or hellenized, and that's just meaning that it's being influenced by the Greek culture. And so the Greek spelling and the Greek structure ended up, you know, sort of taking over and beginning to transform this name. And I got to thinking about what this looks like in our families today, kinda like you were talking about Jonathan. How those names are passed down. But this is sort of looking at it from a little bit different perspective. You know, on my side of the family, we're Clines, and we spell it, you know, C l i n e. But I would imagine that our ancestors did not have that, you know, more English spelling of a German name. I'm sure it was a K or something like that. You know, and so that has transformed. My wife's family is all from Scandinavian descent. And when they lived in, and I'm not sure if it's the Norwegian or the Swedish side of the family, but when they lived over there, it was Johansen. And when they came over here, it sort of transformed into Johnson. And so there's that, you know, that change that happens because of the influence of the culture. But one of the things that, you know, as you study the Bible, you run into this word etymology. And it's just a bigger word, I guess, that means the study of the course of words over time. You know, how a word changes, how a language changes over time. And one of the things I was reading about, is that before the Latin Vulgate was produced, which the Latin Vulgate would've been the Latin translation of the Bible.

Gary Schick
Which the Roman Church follows to this day,

Ben Cline
The Catholic, yeah. So there, before that time, there was the Greek Septuagint, which is the Greek translation of the Bible.

Gary Schick
Right. For the Old Testament.

Ben Cline
For the Old Testament. Yeah.

Gary Schick
The New Testament has always been in Greek.

Ben Cline
Yeah. And so the etymology of this is that, the Greek Septuagint was translated into Latin. And so in that version, from what this says, the influence began to change that name Lokovos into a form that looks more like James and is translated into James, from what I understand could be. So that's another possible way to look at it. You know, as there were, and I think that there was some French, you know, involvement in that as well. Where the Latin was changed into the French and there's just a whole lot of history to that.

Gary Schick
A lot of history in Latin and French.

Ben Cline
But, you know, so all of that to say, this is the etymology of that word, that it changes over time. And so we do still see the name Jacob in the New Testament. But it is, you know, almost always referring to the Old Testament characters and not the New Testament characters. And so there's just a lot to it. There really is.

Gary Schick
And just picking up on that, as I looked at those two words in Greek, there's actually in the New Testament, there's both names. There's Yakov, which is just directly translated from Hebrew into Greek as Jacob. And then there's the Greek name, which is the Hebrew equivalent Yakuba, which is always translated James. So there's your difference right there. So it is actually two different Greek words for the same name. One is the Greek name, one is the Hebrew name put into Greek letters. And so yeah, Yakov=Jacob. And then there's something else that goes on. And that is, how does it get from a y sound into the English with a J? And that is because English has a certain amount of heavy influence, as you mentioned, by French, but also by German. And I think it's in German, that for some reason, what we have as the letter J is pronounced as an I or a Y. And so you mentioned in your own family's history, Johansen. Well, Johann is John, and it has a J. And so in the New Testament, Yohannes is John and comes into Johan in German or Scandinavian or whatever it is. And then in English, we come to that letter J and we don't pronounce it with an I or a Y, we say "Ja." And so, you know, for example, we hear about in, you know, Spanish, the name Jesus. Jesus comes from the Greek "Yesus," but when you send it through into English, it ends up with a J. And so we say, "Ja" where in older times they would've said, "Ya" And so these are all ways that language kinda changes over time. But it is the same essential name. And similarly, you have in Hebrew the name Hanah, we say Hannah. And then you meet the New Testament prophetess who celebrates Jesus' birth, Anna. And in English we call her Ana. And both names are the same name, and they all all mean grace. So, Hannah, Anna, Ana. And in Hebrew you have a lot of H sounds and there's a couple of Hebrew letters that have an H sound. There's really not an H letter in Greek. There's kind of a little hyphen to say there's an H sound here, but yeah. So there's a lot of reasons why, especially, names get kind of twisted up as they go from one language to another. And so now I don't know why, and I noticed you guys really didn't find it either, why the M sound comes in there. But just to check what you said, Jonathan, cause it sounded a little suspicious to me too. Is King James' influence on the King James Bible influencing the name? And I'm gonna say, "no," and here's something you readers you can do, or listeners you can do this too. While you were talking, I just looked up the Bible Gateway, which has a whole bunch of translations and I looked for the Wycliffe translation, which predates the King James by a lot, you know, over a hundred years. And it's translated there as James.

Ben Cline
Oh, interesting.

Gary Schick
I don't know why people kind of go off in these in the internet about King James. Friends, it's a witch hunt. It's what do they call it? A conspiracy theory, it's nonsense. A conspiracy. It is 100% nonsense, cause you can go back a hundred years before him and find, "No," it's already being translated as James. And so Yokuba, you're gonna find consistently throughout the New Testament, James, it refers to all those contemporary to Jesus.

Ben Cline
And I think that M sound that's in the end of James, that is from the French influence.

Gary Schick
Probably. Yeah.

Ben Cline
And I think that's where that comes from.

Gary Schick
How did Jacob stay Jacob through all those centuries? We'll never know. And we are not experts in language, but we're thankful for it. And we're thankful for those who've done the hard work for us. I still to try to hang on a little bit to my Greek from seminary days, and I don't know if that's so much, because it was such a painful experience for me. Or a little bit, you know, somebody who influenced me a lot, I'm rereading his works right now is C.S. Lewis. He's a language guy. And so I'm a wannabe language guy. I still keep trying, you know, I've been trying for 30 years and I'm still trying. But I know a lot of guys that just say, "thank the Lord I got through that class and put it on the shelf." But it is important that people do the work, or that some people have, because as we talked about last week, we were talking about orthodoxy. There have been mistranslations through the years that have led to much more serious things than, how do you pronounce a name, for example. As we've talked about, did we talk about this after the show or during the show once how the divine name was actually mistranslated into the King James as Jehovah? Where actually two names are going on there, the Hebrew name Yahweh, and as in order to not say that name, the Jews would say Adonai Lord. And so they put the vowels for Adonai into the word Yahweh. And in the King James it got translated Jehovah. Well that's not a big deal, cause God knows who we're talking about no matter what we call. But then it becomes a little more serious in the Latin Vulgate when St. Jerome, who was a pretty good translator and he did, he had both as you pointed out. He had the septuagint in front of him, but he also was very proficient in Hebrew. But somehow he translates the words for repentance as dependence. And so that creates a whole new train of thought as opposed to merely turning from my sin and trusting in Jesus. Now I've gotta do something about it. And so that leads we Protestants to say in a wrong direction that we were grateful for our Greek studies. To go back to the original and say, "no, it doesn't say dependence, it says repentance." But then even worse, you have somebody who stumbles over John 1 and mistranslates it. "In the beginning was the word and the word was with God." And it's mistranslated by the Jehovah's Witnesses as, "in the beginning was the word, and the word was a God." Which, if whoever did that really knew their Greek, they would know that that would not be a possible translation there, but a mistranlation. And so, and now you've got it taking us, not into a wrong teaching within the Christian Church, but taking us now completely out of Christianity. Because now, at least by Jehovah's witnesses, they don't understand Jesus even to be divine. They just see Him as a very good man. Sorry friends, there's a lot of good men I know, and not one of them can save me. It takes a perfect---the sinless son of God who is God in the flesh. And so, aren't we thankful as English speakers, that is our primary language for those who have carefully done the work to say, what does this text say? So hopefully this conversation has been helpful to our listeners, but you can do some of this work yourselves, listeners, in the sense of: open up Bible gateway and don't just compare the modern translations, but also look at the ancient translations or what's the other one that I look at all the time? Not Bible gateway, but, oh, the You Bible. If you look in the You Bible, you can find a lot of English translations. You can find other languages, and you can find some of the older ones. The one I would be cautious about is the Geneva Bible. Over and over again, I have looked for the Geneva Bible online, but what I'll find is what calls itself the Geneva, but it actually is just the King James. And I don't know why that is, but I'm pretty sure I was looking at that Wycliffe translation. That it really was Wycliffe's translation, which actually predates the Geneva translation into English, which is a whole other conversation, isn't it? So maybe we should end there. Other than what's the edifying part in this? Just to be really grateful that, #1 the original language has been preserved for us. #2, there have been people who love Jesus, love the Lord very much, who have been very careful in the translation to make sure that our modern translations really do get it right. And where there's discrepancies and questions, they'll often put it in the footnotes. And then #3, sometimes we're gonna scratch our heads and say, "why is Jacob the Hebrew name? Jacob become James?" And I think we solved it. In the New Testament, they went with the Greek name, and then through French it becomes from Yokubo to James.