How Do We Know Christ's Incarnation Is True? - Ask the Pastor

You can listen to Ask The Pastor every weekday at 9:00am MST on 97.1FM Hope Radio KCMI! You can also listen and subscribe to Ask The Pastor in your favorite podcast feed. Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Stitcher, Amazon Music and most other podcast services.

This edition of Ask the Pastor features Pastors Gary Hashley, Tim Hebbert and Brad Kilthau.

Tim Hebbert
We're gonna jump into a Christmas question this week. This is the question, "During the Christmas season, there is a lot of mention of the incarnation. How do we know it's true, and is that really so important to be included in the Christmas story for us today?" And I guess I would answer, yes, to that second question. But, so what is the incarnation? Let's start there. The incarnation, I'll give you the definition of it, the proper definition from a biblical dictionary, "The act of grace whereby Christ took our human nature into union with divine person and became man. Christ is both God and man. Human attributes and actions are predicated of Him, and He of whom they are predicated is God. A divine person was united to a human nature. The union is hypostatical or is personal; the two natures are not mixed or confounded. And that confounded, I would say, or confusing, and it is perpetual." A simpler definition would be, that the God of the universe came into the world and took on human flesh. You know, Brad, as I was working through that, I remember one of our topics, one of the days, probably been five, six months ago. And you were the one that probably for the very first time got me to really think about this. Now when Jesus was resurrected, He was resurrected in bodily form again, and then He ascended into heaven and He took that bodily form with Him. Now that bodily form is not the same as what we have here. It doesn't age, it's not susceptible to anything, but He still bears all of the scars. I think, I agree with what you'd said that day, of what He went through for us at the cross of Calvary. So when He returns, we're gonna see those nail scar hands. We're gonna see the scars of the crown of thorns on His head and all those things. So as we walk through this today folks, I'd just ask you to think in those terms. There's a few passages I wanna share with you that the scripture talks about, "The divine Jesus coming in the form of man." The first one is probably the most obvious to all of us, and that's the first chapter of the gospel of John, verse 14 "And the word," capital W referring to Jesus, "Became flesh and dwelled among us. And we have seen His glory, glory as of the only son from the father full of grace and truth." The second chapter of the book of Hebrews, the writer says this, starting with verse 11, "Both the one who makes people holy and those who are made holy are of the same family. So Jesus is not ashamed to call them brothers and sisters. He says, I will declare your name to my brothers and sisters in the assembly, I will sing your praises. And again, I will put my trust in Him. And again, He says, here I am and the children God has given me. Since the children have flesh and blood, He too shared in their humanity. So that by His death, He might break the power of him who holds the power of death--that is the devil." And one last passage, and this is from the Old Testament. This is one that any Christian that's gone to a Christmas Eve service has heard this passage. Isaiah chapter nine, and I'm just gonna read verse six, "For unto us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government shall be upon His shoulders. And His name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father and the Prince of Peace." So Brad, how do we know it's true that Jesus was fully God and fully man?

Brad Kilthau
Well, that passage you just quoted from Isaiah, of course, that one's the classic one, talking about the incarnation. The first part talks about His humanity, and then it goes on into His deity and what His plans are in the future. But I think another way we can look at this is, to know that Jesus was fully God and fully man, is you separate the two, was Jesus fully God? You go to the classic passage that you would normally be in during the Christmas season and the gospels, and in Matthew 1:1-17 you got this whole long list of how 'A' begot 'B'. It's one of those lists that we usually skip over, cause we don't wanna try to stumble through the names. But when you get verse 18, you find there's a record account of a birth without a human father. And you find that Matthew carefully guarded the fact that Jesus was born of a virgin. He takes out the whole genealogical table of the Lord and he states when he gets to Mary, that Jesus was only born of Mary. In fact, in chapter one, verse 16, it has the words, "of whom," a pronoun, "of whom." And that indicates clearly in the original language that Mary only, not Mary and Joseph, was the one that had Jesus. And so the fact that Jesus was born only of a Virgin, that's very clearly showing that He is truly God. And then I think another one that's kind of clear that we often forget about is the betrothal between Mary and Joseph. I think that's very important in this miraculous event, because as we know during betrothal period, a man and a woman were, what we would call today, engaged. But to them it was a lot more serious than an engagement. In fact, to break off the betrothal there would have to be a creed of divorce to make that happen. And so also during that period of time, which sometimes is almost a year in length, the couple, the man and the woman could not come together sexually. And if they did, it was actually considered an act of adultery and it could even mean death, it was that serious. And so that tells you, there's not something secret going on here of Mary sneaking off with Joseph or something of that sort. This was a serious thing in that culture, in that day and time, the betrothal period. And so yes, when you look into scripture, it was the holy spirit who came upon Mary during that time. And the Bible says, "Came upon her and placed the son of God, the Messiah in her womb." And we know that even though a lot of people probably mocked it in that day, I mean if they saw a pregnant girl walking around, they would say, "You know, well, she did this, she sinned or whatever." And we know even Joseph didn't believe it to start with until an angel appeared to him in a dream that it was the miraculous work of the holy spirit to bring about the incarnation.

And I think we need to be paying attention to the angel of the Lord when he revealed to Joseph that this son or this child inside of Mary was God Himself. There's something clear in the angel's message, because the angel told Joseph the sex of the baby, the name of the baby and the mission that the baby would carry out. And then of course on this side of things, we can look back and see exactly that was the truth. The baby was a male baby, His name, as we would say it in our language, Jesus, and His mission was fully carried out and that is to save His people from their sin. And so it was a spiritual work, it wasn't of a human father to bring about this conception. Something that never happened in the history of man, something that'll never happen again in the history of man. Jesus was born, He was fully God, and He was always God. As it says in Micah 5:2, "He is of the everlasting," as we look in that passage of scripture. So Jesus' personhood didn't start through this miraculous work of the holy spirit, when Jesus was born here on the earth. The Bible tells us clearly that He existed from eternity past. Absolutely He did, as we know, Jesus created the world that He was born into, when we studied that through the scriptures. And then you can look at the life of Jesus to see that He's fully God. The miracles that He performed when He empowered His disciples to do miracles; the transfiguration. And then you think about raising Himself back to life after the death on the cross. You think about His ascension up into heaven before eye witnesses. Definitely, He absolutely is God. And then the question is, "Okay, so maybe He's fully God, but can He be fully man?" Well, you got to keep in mind, He had a human mother, Mary, which produced a Mary substance, a complete human in nature, a body, soul, and spirit. And in knowing this, we can stand why the angel and his conversation to Mary described the one who being born, as the holy one. And I guess when you study that in the original language, the holy one in Luke 1:35, it indicates that Jesus was supernaturally conceived and Mary gave birth to Him as a human being. But Mary did not give Him His personhood and did not give Him His divine nature. So He was born as a human, He was a male child, but He already existed as the second person of the Trinity. I guess I just need to say that to you guys, because when we're thinking about this broadcast, I know that there are some who have had the thought that Mary is the mother of God. And that's been said often, and that is totally not true. Jesus existed in eternity passed and He existed way before Mary was ever born. Also some of the humanity things of Jesus: He shed tears, He felt real pain, hunger, and thirst during that time of temptation in the wilderness. He ran out of human strength, just like you and I would, He grew from a little baby to being a boy, to being a man. People could feel Him, they could touch Him, they could embrace Him. In fact, He was even able to be beaten, as we know, as He went to the cross and murdered and butchered and hung on a cross, that's got to have a human body for that to happen. So, Gary what are your thoughts on the incarnation?

Gary Hashley
Well, the part of the question that I was asked to think about and prepare for is, "What does the incarnation do for us today?" Brad, you hit on a very good point, Bethlehem isn't where Jesus started. Jesus has always been who He was, the second member of the Trinity from eternity passed, but He became flesh incarnation. If you go to the store, you buy Chili Con Carne, Chili with meat, Chili with flesh. Incarnation; Jesus took flesh to dwell among us and John, one of the disciples, writing in 1 John about Jesus, says, "We've heard, we've seen, we've looked upon, our hands have handled." And he's talking about Jesus that, "We heard Him speak, we saw Him with our eyes, we looked upon Him, we actually touched Him because He was real. He had a real human body, He always had been the spirit. The second member of the Trinity, He became flesh to dwell among us," John says. And the question is, "Well, what does that do for us today?" Well, I sat down and came up with five quick thoughts. One is, if Jesus really became a man while still being God, we talked about that, but if He really became a man, we can know God in a personal way. Because just as the disciples talked with Him and laughed with Him and ate with Him and walked with Him, we have in Jesus, one, we can know God who is spirit, but we can know Him in a personal way. The daily bread back in 2006 included, "God can exact nothing from man that He's not exacted from Himself. He has Himself, gone through the whole of human experience. From the trivial irritations of family life and the cramping restrictions of hard work and lack of money, to the worst horrors of pain and humiliation, defeat, despair, and death. When He was a man, He played the man. He was born in poverty, died in disgrace and thought it well worthwhile." Through Jesus we can know God, in fact we can't know God without Jesus. He said, "I'm the way, the truth and the life, no one comes to the father but by me," so we can know God in a personal way and we can know that God understands our every need. Hebrews 2 talks about the fact that He suffered, and He's able to help those who are being tempted. He's able to help us in our need because He became one of us, just without sin. But He had every other attribute of humanity that we have, Brad talked about it: He got hungry, He got thirsty, He got tired He ate, He slept. So yeah, He understands our every need, He knows what it is to be tired. He knows what it is to be hungry, He knows what it is to have people walk away and feeling lonely. The third is, we have a helper for our every need. Hebrews 4 talks about the high priest, talking about Jesus, and says, "In Him, we can find grace to help in time of need." He's always there to help because He came to be among us and to be one of us. And we can know that He can help us in our time of need. The fourth one is, we have a perfect atonement for our sins. It says in 1 Peter, "He bore our sins in His body on the tree," He could not give His flesh for us if He didn't have flesh, and He could not give His blood for us, if He didn't have blood. And if He wasn't incarnated, if He hadn't left heaven to come to this earth and become flesh, there'd been no flesh and there'd been no blood to give for the atonement for our sins. And then lastly, we have a model to live our life after, 1 Peter 2 talks about Jesus and says, "He left us an example so that we might walk and follow in His steps." So because Jesus came, we can know God in a personal way. We can know that He understands our needs, He's there to help when we have needs. He's the perfect atonement for our sins, and we have a model to live our life. And all of that is part of the wonder of the fact that Jesus was born.

Discussing Great Hymns of the Faith; "O Come All Ye Faithfull" - Ask the Pastor

You can listen to Ask The Pastor every weekday at 9:00am MST on 97.1FM Hope Radio KCMI! You can also listen and subscribe to Ask The Pastor in your favorite podcast feed. Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Stitcher, Amazon Music and most other podcast services.

This edition of Ask the Pastor features Pastors Mike Clement, David Clement and Michael Gleb.

Mike Clement
We've been looking at some of the hymns that are more familiar, they're older hymns, and they've passed the test of time. And I picked out one for us to look at today, it's a Christmas hymn. This is, you know, the end of November, we're coming up on Christmas. And, you know, years ago we had a lady that came, actually it was a woman and her daughter. And they played the Vibraharp, the Marimba and piano, they had all kinds of neat stuff. And they said they were from the Seattle area and they were hired by shopping malls to play Christmas music. And the comment was made, because Christmas music is not allowed in public schools any longer, many people miss the Christmas music. And they were hired just to play music in the malls, it was kind of interesting. Anyway, the hymn that we're gonna look at is, Oh, Come All Ye Faithful. And we were talking a little bit about the fact that a lot of hymns have good rich theology, and that was something that the hymn writers used to really focus on. It wasn't just to sell song, and it wasn't just to become popular. They wanted to communicate a message, and they wanted that message to be a biblical message. And there's a line in here every time I sing it, it kind of gets me, and now I gotta find it. It's in the second stanza, the second stanza says, "God of God and light of light begotten, low He abhors not the virgins womb." And there's a fascinating concept that, you know, the Lord Jesus Christ was the second person of the Trinity, the creator of heaven and earth, and in the book of Hebrews, it says, "He humbled Himself and became obedient even to the death of a cross." But He humbled Himself to actually be in the womb of Mary, and that's just an incredible thought. And then it goes on, it says, "A very God begotten not created." There are those that reject the full deity of the Lord, Jesus Christ, the idea that Jesus is equal with God, the father, and equal with God, the son. In fact, we had a lady in our church who went on a vacation with some of her sisters, they're all grown. She said they were on the beach in California and one of them turned to her and said, "Sandy, you go to church, don't you?" She said, "Yeah, I do." And the gal said, "Did you know that Jesus was God?" And Sandy said, "Uh, yes, I did." She said, "Well, I knew He was good, and I knew He taught things. I knew He healed people, but I didn't know He was, God, I just found that out. And there are some people that reject the full deity of the Lord, Jesus Christ. And those that do, oftentimes will use the phrase that we find in John 3:16, "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son," and they kind of hang on that. See, Jesus was begotten, He was created, and so He was not eternal and He was not God. Now that term begotten, is not talking about origin, that is a position, that is a designation that, begotten. In one of the Psalms, it says that the father declared Him to be the begotten, He made Him the begotten. And so, this actually is underlying the full deity of the Lord, Jesus Christ. He was not created, He was begotten, He was declared to be the Son of God. So this is a great Christmas hymn, any thoughts on that guys?

Michael Gleb
You know, a great deal of Jesus' ministry was convincing people that He was God. I mean, honestly, you go look at the life of Christ, and I spent time when I first got to Torrington Baptist, just going over the life of Christ and miracles and His travels. I'm forgetting the other things, but I spent a great deal of time in some of those important passages. And it struck me that He just spent a great deal of time convincing the Pharisees, Sadducees, and others that were lost that He was His own personal deity. And so yeah, I mean, not created, not a created being like you and I are. And by the way, in Genesis, we know full well in the account of the creation, and there's a plurality there that's mentioned, I can't remember what verse, I don't have it in front of me.

Mike Clement
There's a number of places right in the beginning. "Let us make man in our own image"

Michael Gleb
That's right, "Let us make man," yeah, absolutely. But that's one of the things that struck me about the life of Christ, was when I was going back and somebody had asked me, a while back, what would I teach somebody that's struggling with salvation? And I think I had mentioned that because it was heavy on my heart and I was thinking about it and maybe even preaching through it was, that Jesus is God. I don't know why I said that at the moment, but there was some other reasons.

David Clement
Good, yeah. Well, interesting thing, you know, oftentimes when we think about this song, when we sing this song, we kind of get the idea of being on the hillside. Maybe with the shepherds and the beckoning that we feel, but really the angels didn't beckon the shepherds to go. It was the shepherds that said, "Come let us go, even unto Bethlehem and see this thing, which the Lord has made known unto us." You know, but the idea that we kind of get that picture in our mind as we sing the song of the Bethlehem, Jesus being born there and being invited to go and worship Him. We maybe even think of the wise men that came. But anyhow, the invitation is to us today still, you know, we're not in the first century, we're not in Bethlehem. But the invitation is not to literal Bethlehem, not to the birthplace of Christ but the idea of, what did Christ come for again? You know, and really when you take the time to sit down and look at good hymns of the faith, if you would. Whether it's a Christmas hymn like this is, getting you in the holiday spirit, whether it's like some of the other ones that we've talked about, you see the plan of salvation laid out. You see the truth of God's word intermingled throughout the whole hymn and that's where you see where the power of these hymns come from. Is the fact that they do have rich doctrine in them, they do have the word of God interwound in throughout the stanzas and the choruses of the song. And so that's where they get their validity, if you would. But just this invitation, not just for them, not just for those shepherds, not just for the people at that time, but it's true to us today. The idea of, come, let us adore Him, let us worship Him as King of Kings and Lord of Lords.

Mike Clement
In most hymn books, in many hymn books I should say, in the very beginning there's sort of a, like a table of contents. And you can find, "Okay, here are where the Christmas hymns are located, here's where the Easter hymns are located, here's where the patriotic hymns are located." They're usually bunched up like that. And in many, in the very beginning, here are the worship hymns. And that actually tends to be a small section of most hymn books. Most hymns and I'm talking about older hymns too, most hymns are testimonial, and there's nothing wrong with a testimonial hymn. The one that we looked at before is testimony, "Years I spent in vanity and probably caring not my Lord was crucified, knowing not it was for me He died on Calvary." A testimonial hymn is talking about my relationship to the Lord, but a worship hymn is Him. It's Him, it's me worshiping Him. I've been in some services, not in our church or your church, but I've been in some services where they have a praise and worship time. And frankly, the first time I saw that, it was like, "Okay, we're all gonna stand up and we're gonna praise and worship the Lord." And so for 10 minutes everybody stood and sang, and then praise and worship time was over, "Now, we're gonna do something else." And that bothered me, the whole service should be worship, the whole service should be praise. In fact, when I came home, the next bulletin I did, I redid the whole thing. Praise, worship in song, worship in reading scripture, worship in taking the offering, worship in testimonies, you know, the whole thing. And it's true, kind of had a bur under my side, but the whole idea of, let's adore Him. Somebody commented once on prayer, that many people's prayers sound like a McDonald's prayer, with a gimme gimme here and a gimme there.

Michael Gleb
Almost rhythmical in a sense too. It's like, yeah, it's exactly right.

Mike Clement
In fact, many of us have spent not nearly enough time just worshiping God in prayer. There've been times when I've gone to prayer and said out loud, "Lord, I don't need to learn anything, I'm not here to learn anything, I'm not here to get anything, I just want to be close to you." In the course of this, "Oh, come let us adore Him, oh come let us adore Him, oh come let us adore Him, Christ the Lord." Now there's a great big sidetrack path down there that is beckoning, and I'm not gonna go down too far. But there has been some reaction to the Lordship of the Lord, Jesus Christ. There was a book that was written a number of years ago, and out of reaction to that book came the concept of Lordship salvation. Which says, "When you come to Christ, if you're not sincere and give Him everything, then you're really not saved." And I understand that, that actually is a reaction to the book, which the book did not teach. What I find in scripture is, saving faith also produces other things. Saving faith produces repentance, saving faith produces submission, saving faith produces a desire to please the Lord. And I think that's what scripture--

Michael Gleb
Sanctification, yeah.

Mike Clement
Yeah, and I think that's what scripture means when it says, "Any man be in Christ is a new creature." All things are passed away, all things have become new, but here is this encouragement to come and just adore Him. I love the preaching of the word and I enjoy preparing messages and getting ready to open up God's word and share it with the people. But we have had some times when we've had just an unusual testimony time in the church. I mean, people are sharing how God has touched their heart and used them. And not just prayer requests, but I'd be sitting on the platform with my notes and I'm starting to scratch stuff off, cause there's not gonna be enough time for this and not enough time for that. And there actually was a couple of times when I just folded my notes and let it go.

Michael Gleb
That's good.

Mike Clement
The worship atmosphere was so rich that I just didn't feel comfortable.

Michael Gleb
Yeah, Can I add to that?

Mike Clement
Sure. Yeah, go ahead.

Michael Gleb
You know, at the very beginning we talked about, you know, not a created being and then it comes in, "Oh come let us adore Him, oh come let us adore Him." The scriptures tells us, "They, that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth. So, you know, there's a lot of worship, so-called, that really is not worship, you know. And right type of worship, because there's not the truth that backs it up, you know? And there's a doctrine of Jesus Christ, there's a doctrine of the word of God, and they, that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth. So these things are beautiful. There is a time that it can connect to our emotions and connect to our spirit, but it has to be based in truth.

Talking About Messianic Prophesies - Ask the Pastor

You can listen to Ask The Pastor every weekday at 9:00am MST on 97.1FM Hope Radio KCMI! You can also listen and subscribe to Ask The Pastor in your favorite podcast feed. Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Stitcher, Amazon Music and most other podcast services.

This edition of Ask the Pastor features Pastors Kiley Callaway, John Mulholland and Jon Simpson.

Jon Simpson
And we are gonna take on the topic, since it's Christmas time and near Christmas, we thought it'd be appropriate to look at some of the messianic prophecies from the Old Testament specifically about Jesus. And so we're going to look at a couple of different passages from the book of Isaiah. And the first passage is found in Isaiah chapter 42, and it's the first four verses, so I just want to read those as we get started here. Isaiah 42:1-4 goes this way, "Look at my servant whom I strengthened. He is my chosen one who pleases me. I have put my spirit upon him. He will bring justice to the nations. He will not shout or raise his voice in public. He will not crush the weakest reed or put out a flickering candle. He will bring justice to all who have been wronged. He will not falter or lose heart until justice prevails throughout the Earth."

John Mulholland
I have one more little section there, does yours have it? "Even distant lands beyond the sea, will wait for his instruction."

Jon Simpson
Oh, I do it's on the next page. Thank you for catching that.

John Mulholland
I was like, "What Bible are you reading?"

Jon Simpson
It's the Bible that cuts out part of it. Right, so what is the main theme that you guys see here in this particular prophecy about the Messiah?

John Mulholland
Justice, He's going to bring justice.

Jon Simpson
Yeah, so as we think about the topic of justice, how does that connect today? What kind of justice does he, do you think is being referred to?

John Mulholland
So the people are in exile and he's giving them a future hope. He's telling them that whomever, you know, this person, this Messiah, whoever this person is that's going to come is going to bring justice. So in their minds, they would think that He's going to deliver them from their exile. So short term, I think we could be thinking about how we would translate that to us. We hear things like this and maybe our default switch then too is short-term. Like I'm thinking of maybe how something's going to be restored in my life today or whatever. I think that's the short answer to your question. I'm like, how do we apply that? I think we think short and think we're going to experience these promises today. Just like they thought they were going to experience those promises.

Jon Simpson
And justice, I mean, the kind of understanding of what justice is, is to make things right. Would you agree with that simple definition? So the Messiah is going to come to make things right. And yeah, because they're in the time of suffering in Babylon, then they are looking for an immediate release to that. And for things to be made, right for them as a nation.

Kylie Calloway
They always thought He was coming to make things right. But not in the way that He meant.

Jon Simpson
Yeah. So they're looking for a savior to get them out of the persecution they're under, to make things right.

Kylie Calloway
Looking for something tangible, wouldn't you say? Something that's like a kingdom that He was going to set up.

Jon Simpson
Yes, yes. And interestingly enough, they're looking for that in Isaiah's time. And they're also, the nation of Israel was looking for that when Jesus came.

Kylie Calloway
Looking for something external, something they can see or touch.

John Mulholland
Well, and even in the first chapter of Acts before Jesus, you know, ascends, the question the disciples ask is, "Are you now going to bring your kingdom to the Earth? You came, we saw all these miracles, you died your back." What I say, when we talk about this at Westway is, "Like they had their, Make Israel Great Again, hats on. They're ready to-

Kylie Calloway
Build Back Better.

John Mulholland
Yes, yes, exactly. We're here, you're ready to do this, and I think that's what these people are looking for. So I would argue, because that cycle has existed since this time, as evidenced by the situations that we just talked about. We have that same mindset, like, we're ready for immediate relief.

Kylie Calloway
We're ready for the king to get the kingdom ready to go.

Jon Simpson
We're ready for things to be made right, and we can tell when things aren't right. And certainly the world is filled with people with different viewpoints on what is right and wrong. We live in a world that's diverse and people's view, you know, we talk about this. I talk about this often with people and the awareness that the battle we're in, in our country and in our world is a spiritual battle. And it always has been. And it's a war between, you know, what the nation of Israel stood for in a sense was to represent God in the world, reflect the character of God, the behaviors of God. And so today, I'm not going to wade into the position of Israel, but the church is meant to reflect that today. God's people, Christians, are meant to be a reflection of Him, but we're looking for justice to happen in our day-to-day life in the world we live in. And there's the constant influence of evil and the presence of evil is there, and we get to experience that and it hurts and we get wronged. I think you were saying before we started recording that, "Why are good people suffering?" So how does the justice, the Messiah is going to bring, play into that? Does it affect or touch our day-to-day life?

Kylie Calloway
Well, yeah, I mean, for me, I think it's that big Christian word, the justification. Though, they were looking for an external, a tangible, a touchable kingdom. You know, it's something deeper inside of us. You know, you said "To be made right." I don't think we're made right, I think we're declared right. According to the theological term justification. So there's nothing that we can do to make ourselves right. There's no amount of works to make ourselves right. It's just faith and that He came, that He died on the cross, and then because of the blood of Jesus Christ, He declares us righteous. And that's, to me the justice that I received, from the injustice of the sin nature that is upon me. That when He looks at me, He declares me right, or righteous.

John Mulholland
And I liked the way you described, like it's not simply an external thing that God is after, that Jesus is after, there's something else. And we can have all of those external things fixed, but there's still something wrong, and that thing that's wrong is me. And as we've gone through the book of Judges, like no matter how many times God sends a judge to deliver them from whatever situation they're in because of their own sin, and I know we're going to talk about that a little later in another session. But the fix is not the external thing, the fix is not, "I need food or I need this." I mean, it's not that those things are wrong to want, but that's not the thing, necessarily that Jesus is ultimately after. So this justice is not only an external thing, but that's the justification that you're talking about. It's what Jesus does to me, to my heart, so that when He sees me, He sees me through the lens of Jesus.

Kylie Calloway
I believe there is an external coming in the end times and new Heaven and the Earth being set up. I think that's where we have to live by faith and not by sight of what's going on and trust God, that ultimately He will bring the justice that we think of in America. That He will bring that to evil and those crazy things that happen to good people. I believe that time is coming, and I believe for this passage, is that's to me, is what he was talking about. That there is a justice coming, they just didn't realize it was Him dying on the cross for their sins.

Jon Simpson
Yeah, when it says, "He will bring justice to the nations," you know, He's not going to crush the weakest reed He's going to come with a sensitivity. He's not going to yell and shout, you know, He's coming with peace, which Jesus did come to bring peace to the world. And the peace was in the, specifically the Jewish nation in Jesus' time, when He came to the Earth, was looking for, you know, they were looking to get out from underneath the oppression of Rome. And they wanted peace as a country and the freedom to do their own thing and to control their own destiny. And they weren't able to do that. and so they were looking for, like we've said, a tangible, a real king that would establish a kingdom, or He would set things right for the nation. But the justice that Jesus really came to bring, as you said, was the, to justify us and to help make it so that we can be made right. And our sins, as you said, can be forgiven and the relationship between the human race and God can be restored.

Kylie Calloway
Right, and I think, for justice to happen, there has to be an ultimate judge, which God is. And I think that's why the Bible says, "There's no longer any condemnation and those that are in Christ Jesus." Because in the court of law, when I stand before Him, since I've been declared righteous by Him. Then I'm no longer condemned before Him, and that's the justice that I get to receive now.

Jon Simpson
And how powerful is that to be able to walk in a right relationship with God in the midst of injustice, that's going to happen to me in my daily life. I'm going to be treated wrongly by the people around me, the world systems against me, the enemies against me, and people are sinful and I'm sinful. I'm not going like, "Walking in this perfect world where nothing happens that's offensive or hurtful," is probably not going to happen. And I'm going to experience injustice in my tangible, real life. So how powerful is being justified before God, and to walk in that, does it have a relation to my day-to-day life? Or I get to experience the goodness of God in the midst of a sinful world, is there a connection there?

John Mulholland
Yeah, and I think that was you before, you know, you mentioned Micah 6:8, "No oh people, the Lord has told you what's good, He's told you what's required of you. Do what's right, love mercy, walk humbly with your God." We had a conversation in one of our small groups recently. You know, we look at the world and we see so much that's wrong with it, and we want justice, people want justice. This is a popular topic, people want justice. And as much as we want to see justice on that macro scale, which is going to come only through Christ, I think as Christians our responsibility is to bring and demonstrate and manifest what justice looks like in my own life. So if I see something I don't like, the fix is not, the fix may be addressing that thing, but the fix is addressing what's wrong in my heart that causes me to judge that thing that I don't like. Like, rather than being mad at someone or I'm frustrated with somebody because they're acting like a sinner, because they are, if it's somebody that's outside of Christ, why would we expect someone who's not a Christian to act like a Christian? I think the micro piece, the day-to-day for me is, to remember that I have been justified by Christ. Christ is doing a work in me and my responsibility is to manifest that justice to other people. To demonstrate the same justice that God did to those other people, which is recognize, you know, I hear, "Somebody oughta pay for that." Or there's a bad thing that happens, "Somebody's got to pay for that, that needs to be made right. And in the back of my mind, I just want to shout, "Somebody did pay for that, His name is Jesus." And how fantastically glorious is that reality?

Kylie Calloway
So we've received this, being declared right, by how? By faith in God's grace, because there what you're saying is, "We need to show more grace to these injustices and things that are happening to us." Which would then be the image of the father.

John Mulholland
Right, taking on, and so then we, this may be a little controversial, so then we don't shout. We don't raise our voice in public, we don't do the things that frankly, so many of the three of us see so much on social media. People in each one of our churches and other churches in town raising up this clamor, which is clearly not an accurate representation of who God is and what He would have us do.

Jon Simpson
Yeah, because we've been justified, made right freely by His grace, we don't have to force justice to happen in every situation. It's one of the things that is maybe not, maybe it's a little counter-intuitive, although Jesus lays it out clearly. The justice movement of our day does not offer forgiveness, nor show any grace, nor exemplify mercy. It's about punishment, it's about paying for things and if that's the world we're going to live in, we're going backwards. Because Jesus has offered us a way out of that, into a path of peace, where it's possible for us to have peace with each other, because we've been made right. Our sins have been you know.

John Mulholland
So when you show who you are, you'll know what to do.

What's New at Cross Reference Library? Amazing Grace

Showdown With Iran -  Bible prophecy expert Mark Hitchcock, PhD, is noticing a dangerous trend: the nation of Iran remains in the newspaper headlines for all the wrong reasons. In Showdown with Iran, he reveals why this rogue nation is so dangerous and how that connects to what the Bible says about what’s to come while encouraging readers to remain alert, aware, and hopeful as the end times near. He tackles questions such as:

• Does Iran plan to wipe Israel off the map?

• What does this mean for the future of the Middle East? 

• Where does Iran stand in Bible prophecy?

• What will be the role of the United States in Bible prophecy?

The warning of what will happen is not new. In the book of Ezekiel, the Bible records a multitude of predictions about the region then known as Persia as well as about the nation of Israel. These ancient prophecies foretell an end-time rise of Iran, as well as Russia and Turkey. But are the prophecies still unfulfilled today? Hitchcock is convinced Iran continues to play a central role in bringing about chaos in the Middle East. In Showdown with Iran, he explores the continued validity and accuracy of end-time prophecy and answers questions that will become increasingly relevant as the end times draw near. 

Lost in the Middle - The Bible never discusses midlife, just like it never discusses teenagers. Yet the Bible is able to address any of life’s experiences because it was written by the One who made them all. You will face things in midlife that beat at the borders of your faith, but you do not have to be lost in the middle of your story. You do not have to be paralyzed by regret, defeated by aging, and discouraged by the passing of your dreams. This middle period of life, which can seem like the end of many things, can actually welcome you to a brand new way of living. As is so often the case in your walk with the Lord, this moment of pain is also a moment of grace. 

The Next Jihad - News of Christians being killed overseas occasionally makes the headlines, but it’s rarely covered by mainstream media and often quickly fades away. While the world has been fixated on jihadist threats in the Middle East, terrorists from Nigeria to Kenya have had free reign to massacre on a scale far beyond that of terrorists in Iraq and Syria. Drawing from on-the-ground experience and personal testimonials, Rev. Johnnie Moore and Rabbi Abraham Cooper--two of the world’s leading advocates for religious freedom and human rights--explain what’s happening to Christians across Africa, why it matters, and what must be done now. 

Grace - We talk as though we understand the term. The bank gives us a grace period. The seedy politician falls from grace. Musicians speak of a grace note. We describe an actress as gracious, a dancer as graceful. We use the word for hospitals, baby girls, kings, and pre meal prayers. We talk as though we know what grace means. But do we really understand it? Have we settled for wimpy grace? It politely occupies a phrase in a hymn, fits nicely on a church sign. Never causes trouble or demands a response. When asked, “Do you believe in grace?” Who could say no? Max Lucado asks a deeper question: Have you been changed by grace? Shaped by grace? Strengthened by grace? Emboldened by grace? Softened by grace? Snatched by the nape of your neck and shaken to your senses by grace? God’s grace has a drenching about it. A wildness about it. A white-water, riptide , turn-you-upside-downness about it. Grace comes after you. It rewires you. From insecure to God secure. From regret-riddled to better-because-of-it. From afraid-to-die to ready-to-fly. Grace is the voice that calls to change and then gives the power to pull it off. Let’s make certain grace gets you.

What Should Christians Do With Thanksgiving? - Ask the Pastor

You can listen to Ask The Pastor every weekday at 9:00am MST on 97.1FM Hope Radio KCMI! You can also listen and subscribe to Ask The Pastor in your favorite podcast feed. Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Stitcher, Amazon Music and most other podcast services.

This edition of Ask the Pastor features Pastors Gary Hashley, Tim Hebbert and Brad Kilthau.

Brad Kilthau
We've got a timely question to think about today as we're moving into Thanksgiving this week. And the question goes like this, "What do, or should Christians do with the holiday of Thanksgiving?" We wouldn't think that would be a question we'd have to ask, but today we do. And we have to remember that when we think about Thanksgiving, it is just, flat-out remembering God's blessings in difficult circumstances. And so fitting for us today, as we think about where we are as a nation and some of the things that are coming up against us today in our country. But we have to also look back in history, because Thanksgiving holiday has been celebrated on and off in the United States since 1789, when President George Washington declared it as a national holiday. And then President Abraham Lincoln made it a regular national holiday in 1863. I thought that was kind of ironic that two presidents that probably went through some very difficult times in this nation are mentioned as bringing this holiday to the forefront. But the reason for the holiday is to remember God's blessing. Especially God's provision and care for the pilgrims, the first European settlers that came to America. And as history tells us, they arrived from England in 1620, and there was a group of Christians among them that were seeking land to make a new life for themselves. They were seeking to come to a place of where they could worship God in freedom. But however, when they arrived in North America, it was late, too late that is, to plant food or anything that would make for harvest. And so they didn't have much food during that first cold snowy winter in the Massachusetts bay colony. And many of them died during the winter. In fact, as I was looking up a little bit of this history, 46 out of the 102 pilgrims perished that winter. In spring though, the local Native American Indians helped them plant what they needed to plant that would grow. That is corn and beans and squash, and when harvest time came around, the pilgrims had an abundance of food. And as history tells us, there was so much to eat they invited their new friends, the local Native American Indians, to celebrate with them. They had a big feast. They praised God for helping them survive the winter and providing new friends and abundant food. Now, even though they had endured much suffering, now was still a time to rejoice because those that did survive, they realized that the only reason they survived was because God looked out for them. God brought them to this new land. God gave them the privilege to worship and freedom and spirit and truth, and they had it right. That is all blessings do come from God. And we think often of the verse found in James 1:17 that says, "Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above comes down from the father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow of turning." And for Christians in the United States, as we get back to our question, Thanksgiving is not only a time for food and family, as great as that is, but it is more importantly a time that we thank God for the good provisions in the care that he shows for us every day. He shared that with the original American settlers, He's still sharing that with us today. He has blessed our nation so much, but we also have to remember that the percentage of Christians in America today compared to what it was in the mid-1800's, when this holiday was first coming into being instituted in our country, that percentage isn't even close. And so we have many Americans that don't thank God on Thanksgiving day in this nation. But for those of us who trust in Christ, we remember that our families, the food, provisions we have, we know it didn't come from us. It isn't because of our work alone, but it is all a blessing that God has given to us. God is our creator, He's our provider, and it's good for us to take time to thank Him, especially on this time of year. And they actually have a holiday that, encourages us to do that. In fact, again, in the Bible, it says in 1 Thessalonians 5:18, "Give thanks in all circumstances for this is God's will for you in Christ Jesus." And so guys, I want to kind of continue the talk about Thanksgiving and Tim, what are some of the ways for Christians to correctly celebrate Thanksgiving?

Tim Hebbert
You know, I think it can be just about anything you really want, as long as it's from the heart. I always feel like one of the ways to celebrate Thanksgiving is to share the goodness of God with somebody less fortunate than you are. Here at the church, the last several years, our Kids Club on Wednesday night, collects food goods and one of our ladies groups combines with them. And they purchase and deliver to, I think this year was about 20 families. Several of them were shut in elderly people, who needed some good food, some things just to let them know that there are people in the community that care about them. And our home celebration, my family's celebration, it's probably Sandy and mine's favorite holiday of the year. To your point, I think it's become secularized, just like Christmas and Easter has. But in our home, my whole family gathers and we typically have, a half a dozen people, either from the church here, or maybe friends that we know don't have somewhere to light on that day and we invite them to our home. But everybody comes at 10 o'clock in the morning. And everybody that comes is in charge of preparing something for the meal.

And we typically stop on the hour, at the top of the hour, every hour around and gather in a circle and everybody shares a thankfulness that they have of what's gone on in the last year. For me last year, to be honest, I was just thankful that I had health enough to have my family there. I had just gotten over COVID, that turned into pneumonia, and so I was thankful for that. But that's typically, for me I think of Thanksgiving anytime the Lord gives me a heart of Thanksgiving. I want to try to share that with someone, and so one of the ways is to serve other people. But another way I believe that honors God is to draw people into your close knit circle. You know, so to speak, and share that love for the Lord and that thanksgiving for the Lord with them. Because sometimes I think we take the goodness of God, well now I shouldn't say sometimes, when we're not careful, we always take the goodness of God for granted, and we're not near thankful enough. I don't know. What do you guys do for Thanksgiving typically at the church or at your home?

Gary Hashley
Well, Thanksgiving for me was always a very special time, because I was a ministry kid and we didn't live near my grandparents on either side. And my dad's family, he was one of nine, they only got together three times a year Thanksgiving, Christmas, and Easter. So between Easter and Thanksgiving, I never saw my cousins, and there were over 30 of us cousins. I never saw my cousins. So they were great times when we would fill my Aunt Juanita's house, because she had the only house big enough for grandma and grandpa and nine, their kids with their spouses and then 30 some grandchildren total to get together. It was a very special time to get together with them, but we always had a time with just my dad and mom and my sister and brother and I. It was very, very special time for me, and we'd like to carry that on in our family. I mean, we have a daughter in Colorado and a daughter in Helena with their families, Helena, Montana, and a son who's now in Indianapolis. So we are together a lot, and we look forward to those times when at least part of us, rarely is it all of us, part of us can get together. Where I pastor there at Calvary Memorial, they started a routine, a pattern years ago when the church first started back in the mid-1960s of having a large, we call it feast of thanks. It is a very full house, full blown Thanksgiving dinner that we get together. This year we had about nearly 200 people in house and plus we delivered meals to shut-ins, and just had a great and wonderful time. We do it early in the month, that way we set the tone. I feel like it really kicks off my holiday season for Thanksgiving, Christmas, New Years, to be able to do just that. But it is a great time. What about Community Bible Brad?

Brad Kilthau
Well, Gary we do the same type of thing, in fact, we just went through it this past weekend. We call it a Praise Service of Thanksgiving, and we just kind of open up the service time for people to give their personal testimonies and praises of great things that have happened in their life through the past year. We had a lot of people who would stand up and share a lot of bad things that happened as most of us can attest to. I think that those times are testing, but in every time of those testing's they always saw the goodness of God through that. And so they dwelt more on the goodness that God showed to them through those difficult times that they've been going through in their lives. And also just take a little bit of time to look at the little things that God blesses us with. And then after the service, of course, we have a carry-in meal in the same way. We kind of theme it towards Thanksgiving, decorate the fellowship hall, and everybody gets together for the meal. And then of course, as Tim was sharing here, we also do the same thing. We deliver meals earlier in the week to those who are needy, and the women's ministry does a tremendous job of putting together a huge box of food and a big Turkey and all of that, and the trimmings to go. And what they do is they ask me to deliver it to people in need. No one in the church knows where these packages go to except for myself. And some things that I've been coming across the last few years is just this, it's not only people in a physical need, but sometimes people are in an emotional need. They're struggling with some difficult times in their life, and this meal just shows an expression of love from the church. And so, yeah, guys, it's a great time of year just to get the body of Christ together. And again, coming back to, what is Thanksgiving all about? It's just remembering God's blessing in the difficult circumstances of life and seeing God through all of that.

Gary Hashley
Yeah, Thanksgiving as I was growing up in Michigan was a day to eat Turkey and watch the Detroit lions lose a football game, because that was generally the pattern. But most of us think of family, but we all ought to think of God. The very first Psalm I ever memorized in totality, it was Vacation Bible School as a young boy, and I got points for memorizing Psalm 100. "Make a joyful noise to the Lord, all you lands. Serve the Lord with gladness, come before His presence with singing, know that the Lord He's God. It is He was made us and not we ourselves. We are His people and the sheep of His pasture. Enter His gates with thanksgiving and His courts with praise. Give thanks to Him and bless His name for the Lord is good. His steadfast love endures forever and his faithfulness to all generations." I look at that Psalm and the first four verses, are kind of the what of Thanksgiving and the last verse, verse number five is the why. And as you think of the what, there are several action words in Psalm 100: make a joyful noise, serve the Lord, come into His presence, know that the Lord is God, enter His gates with thanksgiving, give thanks to Him, bless His name. And I think a real good lesson from that is thankfulness is an action word. It's not just what we say, but it's what we do in response to what we would say because, and I love it. It says, "Know that the Lord is God." And then in verse five, "For the Lord is good." He's God, and He's good. And it's really, you know, what we should be focusing on, that God is God and God is good. So those first four verses have all those action words telling us, you know, what we can do, but the why is verse five, "For the Lord is good His steadfast love endures forever and his faithfulness to all generations." And I think what I need to remind myself of frequently guys is that, things may not feel good. Circumstances may not be describable as good, but God is good, and that's the thing I'm thankful for. Many have gone through some really tough times. There was an automobile accident on 85, between Torrington and Bear Mountain Station, and two Frontier School of the Bible students were killed. A friend of mine and his son and his son's girlfriend were killed in an airplane crash last night. There are things that aren't really enjoyable, but we can be thankful people because the Lord is good, His love endures, His faithfulness is here for all generations.

What's New at the Cross Reference Library? Coming of Age

Aggressive Girls, Clueless Boys - “Can you sneak out tonight?” What a brazen question for a tween girl to text a boy! In our sex-saturated world, how can parents address th idiomatic upswing of sexually forward girls in hot pursuit of their young sons? Aggressive Girls, Clueless Boys offers a solution to this unsettling cultural trend. Through seven guided “Talk About It” conversations, what-if scenarios, and honest responses to questions from real-life parents, Dennis Rainey offers a detailed guide on teaching your adolescent son to set boundaries and pursue the right kind of girl. It’s time for straight talk with your son! Give him the courage to stand strong in a world enticing him to throw away his sexual purity. 

When They Turn Away - We desperately want our children to have deep faith and a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. We want to arrive safely home in heaven together with our children. But what happens if our adult child leaves the church and turns away from the faith of his or  her childhood? Writing with compassion and honesty, author and pastor Rob Rienow shares a powerful message of hope: it’s never too late to point an adult child’s heart toward God. When They Turn Away shows you how to take a proactive role in leading your child back to faith through four biblical and practical steps: 

• Offer your heart to the Lord 

• Turn your heart to your child 

• Draw your child’s heart to yours

• Point your child’s heart to Christ

My Favorite Senior Moments - Ah, those senior moments we dread...and yet laugh about. Gentle humorist Karen O’Connor tickles your funny bone in these senior moments that also highlight the many blessings of living long. You’ll chuckle and want to share these stories that reveal the sunny...and funny...sides of life. They’ll encourage you to: 

• Embrace with good humor the startling honesty of grandkids 

• Go with the flow when you make silly mistakes 

• Choose to be optimistic instead of opting for pessimism

Yes, remember the good old days, but also look for the good in today. God is with you every step of the way--senior moments and all.

Is Prayer Effective? - Ask the Pastor

You can listen to Ask The Pastor every weekday at 9:00am MST on 97.1FM Hope Radio KCMI! You can also listen and subscribe to Ask The Pastor in your favorite podcast feed. Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Stitcher, Amazon Music and most other podcast services.

This edition of Ask the Pastor features Pastors Gary Hashley, Tim Hebbert and Brad Kilthau.

Gary Hashley
The question today that we are going to look at says, "What about prayer? Is it really effective in accomplishing anything? Or is it just something we do when there is nothing else to do to make us feel better?" What about prayer? You know, there are those who say "Prayer, you know, if you pray in the right way, you can have anything you want." And there are those who say, "Well, prayer doesn't change anything." I don't think either of those perspectives is accurate. But there are those who get discouraged, because they wonder if prayer really makes any difference. I received a missionary letter from a friend of mine who is with, God's Helping Hands, a children's ministry in Michigan, and he tells about speaking. One of their teams was at a camp this past summer, and they met a boy named Danny. And Danny came and he talked to Chris after chapel. And he said, "Uncle Chris, I just wanted to tell you that I don't believe in God." Chris responds, "Why not?" And the boy says, "Because I tried praying to him and nothing happened, nothing changed. I heard no voice, not even a tingly feeling." Chris replied, "So you expected him to answer you your way?" And this boy said, "I prayed for five years and nothing happened." He said, "How do you know nothing happened?" He said, "Look, I haven't believed in God since I was five, okay?" And he says, "Tell me something, how old are you now?" And the boy answered, "Nine." So here's a boy that in his youth, in his young life had tried this thing called prayer. And whatever it was, he doesn't say what he was asking God to do. Maybe it was, you know, get his parents back together, maybe it was, heal Grandma. I don't know what it was, maybe he wanted a pony for Christmas. But whatever he had prayed about, he felt it was a waste of time to pray. And at nine years old, he was already saying, "I don't believe in God." And he based it totally on, "I prayed and nothing changed. I heard no voice, not even a tingly feeling." So part of that question I'd like to look at before I pass it off to my brothers here is, is prayer really effective in accomplishing anything? So I sat down today and I thought, okay, where are examples in scripture where prayer made a difference? And King Hezekiah in his life, in the record of his life in 2 Kings, we find two times when his prayer made a huge difference. In chapter 19, we find Hezekiah concerned because the Assyrians had showed up with an army way bigger than his, way stronger than his, and more equipped than his. And he goes to God and he prays for God to help them, and however God was going to help them, but to help them. And we find that in the night, God struck down 185,000 of the Assyrians. And when the Israelites came, they found that there were just all these dead bodies where the camp of the Assyrians had been. Another time in Hezekiah's life, the next chapter, chapter 20, God sends word to Hezekiah, "You're going to die." And it says, "Hezekiah turned his face to the wall and he prayed." And we find that God sends the prophet back and says, "God heard your prayer, and he's going to extend your life." And he did, 15 years longer. He was healed of the disease that supposedly was going to take his life, and he was now living on for more than a decade. Then I look in the New Testament, Peter's in prison, and the church gets together and prays. And an angel shows up, Peter thinks he's dreaming, angel shows up and gets him out of prison. He goes and knocks on the door where the people are praying, at first they don't even believe it. I don't think they were even praying in faith. They don't believe it until they find out, really it is Peter. And I think of James 4:2, which says you do not have, because you do not ask. So the part of the question I was asked to deal with, is prayer really effective in accomplishing anything? I would say yes based upon scripture, and I would say yes, based upon personal experience. I have seen God step in and respond to prayers in an outstanding, miraculous, over-the-top way. Does He always do what I ask him to do? No, because sometimes his answer is, "No Gary, I have a better idea," and I just need to trust Him in that. So Tim, we're going to shift over to your microphone, and does prayer just make us feel better when there's nothing else we can do? So grab that one and run.

Tim Hebbert
You know, I think the wording of the question, it says a lot, does prayer just make us feel better when nothing else will do? Implying that prayer is the last thing we do, not the first thing that we do. And when I look up just the whole process of prayer, prayer is not a button to push, but it's a relationship to be built. I know you guys agree with me, but I view prayer time as an intimate conversation with my father. And I can look to my earthly father, who's at heritage, and when I can get in to see him now, if I've got questions, if I'm needing advice, I still get it from him. Anytime I walk in and sit down and begin to have a conversation with him, I still have that sense. And do I feel better when I pray? Oh, absolutely. And I think I feel better when I pray, because I sense the intimacy. I'm not, I don't know where you guys are at with this, but I do ask, I do seek, I do knock. But I have learned over the course of my life to come with the only expectation that a sovereign God is going to do what He knows is best. But prayer reminds me that He listens, that He cares, that He's concerned, that He loves me. And so, yeah, that does make me feel better. Does it just make me feel better, just because I've said a few prayers? The person out there in the world that doesn't believe in God that thinks prayer is useless, that's what they're going to argue to you. That, "Well, it's just you saying some words and it makes you feel better." Well, for me, prayer is not necessarily about what I have to say, but shutting my mouth once in awhile and just sitting and soaking in the presence of God and letting his presence nourish me. So yes, that absolutely makes me feel better. But I think if we would start there more often than in there, maybe we wouldn't need to go any anywhere else. Because I think God wants us to bring things to Him first, not try to figure it all out on our own. And when, you know, we need an escape clause, "Okay now I'm going to go pray." But, anyway, that's my two cents. So Brad?

Brad Kilthau
Well, I think that's a good two cents Tim, I like that. That was good. And, you know, I think as we kind of finish this thought up today is, you know, prayer should be a basic part of the believers life. Somebody once said that, "Prayer is supposed to be like breathing for a Christian, easier to do than not to do." And it shouldn't be just like, "I got to do this," you know. And we do pray for a variety of reasons, I'll just give you just a few here." One is, prayer is a form of serving God, and you can study about that in Luke 2. Prayer is also, obeying God, because as we know in Philippians 4, those very famous verses six and seven, it says, "Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving, let your request be made known to God," and here it is what you're talking about Tim, "And the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding will guard your heart and mind through Christ Jesus." Hey, if we got anything we need in life, God says, "Pray," it's a commandment. And if we look in the Bible, if Jesus thought it was worthwhile to pray, and he did a lot, it's obviously got to be for us. And then another reason to pray is that, God has his will, right? And we have to find that. And so prayer is a way of finding God's will. There are situations that come up in our life and yeah we've always got the answer, but as you guys are both saying, God's got the real answer. And so we find that in prayer. Prayer is also a way to prepare for major decisions. As we know in Luke 6, Jesus prayed all night before choosing the apostles, okay? And so, we should be doing the same. I don't think we should approach any major decision in our life without praying. In fact, I don't think we should do little decisions. Some of the guys through the years that I've mentored, some of the young men, I'll even tell them, "Hey, if you're out working in the field sometime and there's a bolt or a nut that's rusted into this piece of equipment and you can't get it loose, and you're struggling with it." I said, "Step back and pray that God would loosen it up." And they'll come back often and say, "You know what? I did that, and God loosened it up." You know, that's the way our God works. Prayer also helps us overcome demonic barriers in life. There's a lot of demonic barriers around us right now, and sometimes they box us in and prayer helps us to get past those barriers. Prayer also helps us get workers for the harvest. May we never seek to bring workers into the harvest without first praying that God would bring the right people for the right place and the right means of serving. Prayer is a great way to strengthen us to overcome temptation. In fact, in Matthew 26, we're told, watch and pray, as Jesus said to his followers, "Unless you enter into temptation, the spirit is indeed willing, but the flesh is weak." And I think we could all say, "Yeah, our flesh is so often so weak." Prayer is a huge tool of overcoming temptation. And also prayer is used to strengthen others spiritually. We must not ever forget about that. And I think as pastors, we think of this a lot, maybe more than sometimes, other folks do in the church. But I don't know about you guys, but I'm always praying for somebody's spiritual growth, praying for their spiritual strength. And sometimes it has to come in a hard prayer because sometimes they're going through a tough time in life. Maybe it's financial, maybe it's their health. And they're asking me as the pastor to pray that their health would be restored or their finances would come in to meet their need. And often I'll find myself going to the Lord and saying, "Yes, there is that need, but would you please strengthen this person through that situation in their life? May they grow spiritually through this thing." Because really that's the main purpose of struggles that in our life. And Gary, you were saying how you're coming into the book of James and you're in your teaching series right now. And we find that's shared a lot in the book of James, of how testing strengthens us. And so that's a good thing actually in our life. So, you know, prayer again is a huge, vital, important part of our Christian life. And also somebody else once said this, "Prayer is like sharing the gospel with people. We do not know who will respond to the message of the gospel until we share it. But in the same way, we will never see the results of an answered prayer, unless we first pray." And yeah, when we pray and we see God answer those prayers, what an uplift of our spirit to see God working. Little things, big things, when we pray, and some people will even write this down in their morning devotion notes and carry that and look back and see how God answered that prayer. And it just lifts their spirit, encourages them and helps them to walk in their faith.

Gary Hashley
You know, there was a book that came out a number of years ago called, The Prayer of Jabez, just a little booklet. And there was one imagination scene in that book where he said, "He saw, in heaven, this mound of packages. This huge mountain of packages. And in his imagining, it was, he imagined asking God, "What is that mountain of packages?" And God's response was, "That's answers to prayers that were never prayed." And I wonder sometimes, you know, when James says, "You have not, because you ask not," we fail to pray. And like Tim, we fail to pray first, we see it as a last resort. But I don't want to get to heaven and find out that there really is a pile of answers and I just never bothered to pray.

Brad Kilthau
Right. And, you know, I guess when we think about our prayer life, you know, a lack of prayer really demonstrates a lack of faith kind of as Tim was alluding to, too. And a lack of trusting in God's word, because again, as has already been shared in our conversation, when we pray according to God's will, He promises to answer that. He promises to answer that prayer according to His will. And so if there's a decision in my life that needs to be made, or if there's a problem in somebody else's life, God's got the best answer. And so, if I pray to Him for his answer and for His will to be done, it's going to be perfect. And so that again, we're trusting in God when we pray like that. And so, yeah, God wants us to come to His throne. Jesus is our high priest right there. He opens the gate and lets us into the throne room with the father, and we can come in and pray at any time. And He loves to see us there approaching the father in that way. So good discussion guys that we had about prayer today, and there's a lot to say about it obviously, but we'll get to that maybe in another time.

What's New at the Cross Reference Library? Let's be Honest!

A Flicker of Light -  For generations, the Jensen’s have raised their families in the small Montana town of Moose Creek, where gossip spreads faster than the wind. Yet some secrets need to be told. When twenty-one-year-old Bea discovers she’s pregnant on the heels of her husband losing his job, she’s forced to admit she needs help and asks her dad for a place to stay. But past resentments keep her from telling him all that’s going on. Mitch Jensen is thrilled to have a full house again, though he’s unimpressed with Bea’s decisions: dropping out of college, marrying so young--and to an idealistic city kid, of all things. Mitch hopes to convince Bea to return to the path he’s always envisioned for her, but she’s changed since her mom died. And he refuses to admit how much he’s changed, too, especially now that he might be losing his mother as well. Grandma June is good at spinning stories, but there’s one she’s never told. Now that her mind is starting to fade, her time to tell it is running out. But if she reveals the truth before her memories are gone forever, the Jensen family will never be the same. 

Straight Up - Are you looking for someone who’s not afraid to tell you the truth? Or a real source of wisdom when things get real? With his trademark combination of raw honesty backed by practical next steps, former NFL player Trent Shelton helps you navigate some of the most confusing topics you face, including relationships, friendships, fear, depression, and even your own past trauma. And while none of us make it out of the storms of life unscathed, the insight and lessons you’ll find in these pages can help you make it out stronger. Organized into 52 different bite-sized chunks of content you can pick up and read anytime you are looking for advice, searching  for answers, or just need a lift, this collection of real and raw, honest and practical wisdom will help you take the next important steps toward being the best you and living your best life. 

Undaunted Hope - Running from the mistakes of her past, Tessa Taylor heads to the uppermost reaches of Michigan, planning to serve as the new teacher to the children of miners. She quickly learns the town had requested a male teacher, but Percival Updegraff, superintendent and chief mine clerk, says she can stay through winter since it’s too late to replace her. Tessa can’t help but thank him and say she is in his debt. Determined to make herself irreplaceable once spring thaw arrives, Tessa throws herself  into her work, and soon two students have decided Miss Taylor is the right match for their grieving father. At the same time, charming assistant lightkeeper Alex Bjorklund makes his interest known, surprising Tessa, who has never had men fight for her hand before. But not all is well as she feels that someone is tracking her every move, and she may not be able to escape the trap that has been laid for her. 

It has been said that, “Honesty is the best policy,” but if that is the case, why do we all have so much trouble being honest with friends, family, and even ourselves. The books I read through this week all contain people and characters who struggle with doing just that. Believing it would be best for everyone involved, these characters keep the burdens of their past hidden. But as much as they deny it, those burdens will continue to weigh them down, the longer they keep them inside. In A Flicker of Light, it follows the story of Bea Michaels and her grandmother June Jensen who find themselves keeping a couple of big secrets from those who care about them. June intends to keep that part of her past safe, but as her memories start to slip away due to the effects of Alzheimer's disease, her hold on that lifelong secret starts to slip away also. In Bea’s case, she believed that if she waited to tell her dad about her pregnancy then she could prove to him that she didn’t waste her life by marrying young. It doesn’t matter if we are 20 or even 60 years old, when we keep something hidden in order to avoid conflict, the conflict always comes back to bite us in some way or another. And that is one of the many things Trent Shelton talks about in his book, Straight Up. Trent reminds us that being honest with ourselves is just as important as being honest with those around us. One truth that he gave us right away was, “Denying reality never helps.” You want to show that everything is just fine, while in reality it's time for you to ask for help. The last book I looked at was Undaunted Hope, which is the third book in the Beacons of Hope Series. In the previous book, Hearts Made Whole, Tessa Taylor betrayed her sister and ruined her own reputation in the process. Even though her sister Caroline ended up with the man and the job of her dreams, we are left wondering what will happen to Tessa. This book answers that question as we find Tessa trying to get a fresh start in Eagle Harbor, Michigan. But with a past as dark as hers, would a fresh start even be possible? To be honest if you want to find out what happens in these great page-turners, come on down to the Cross Reference Library and find out if the rumors in between the covers are true.

What is Accidentalism? - Ask the Pastor

You can listen to Ask The Pastor every weekday at 9:00am MST on 97.1FM Hope Radio KCMI! You can also listen and subscribe to Ask The Pastor in your favorite podcast feed. Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Stitcher, Amazon Music and most other podcast services.

This edition of Ask the Pastor features Pastors Ben Poole and Gary Schick.

Ben Poole
So our question is one again that I had to do a little bit of research on. It was a new topic I hadn't heard of, and so here it is. "I recently heard a new term I've never heard before. Can you tell me what accidentalism means?" And so I, to some degree figured it's probably self-explanatory, but I'd never really heard it this way as a philosophy or a point people are trying to use. So, Gary, what have you found on this?

Gary Schick
Well, you know, I went to that great source of knowledge, Wikipedia. And essentially, "In philosophy, accidentalism denies the causal closure of physical determinism and maintains that events can succeed one another haphazardly or by chance (not in the mathematical, but in the popular sense). Opponents of accidentalism maintained that what seems to be a chance occurrence is actually the result of one or more causes that remain unknown due only to a lack of investigation. Charles Sanders Pierce used the term tychism (from the Greek word τύχη, meaning chance) for theories that make chance an objective factor in the process of the universe." Kind of brought my mind back to the first Jurassic Park movie where that one scientist in the helicopter was talking about chaos theory, you know, like you can't predict it. And so, you know, is there some truth to this? Sure and it's opposite is a determinism and there's a variety of forms of causal determinism. And so the theory of causal determinism, is basically the idea that everything is part of a chain of events, one leading to causing another, like the domino effect. And if you're a fan, I'm a fan of the old, Sherlock Holmes stories, you know, that's basically causal determinism. You know, Holmes would look at Watson and tell him, you know, "See your brother had a bad day today." "What, how do you know?" "Well, because you know, you've got a hair move to your left on your forehead and that's caused by the wind. And wind was blowing that way in your face because you were turned that way. And you were turned that way because you were concerned." At the end, it's like, "Oh, sure, I see how it all fits together," but you're always mystified by Sherlock Holmes. How he could see to the bottom of everything. And so this is kind of the opposite theory. This is, nope things just happen. And so where do we as Christians line up on this, is this even a topic for us today? Ask the pastor? Well, maybe in the sense that Ephesians 1:11 says, speaking of Jesus, "In Him, Jesus, we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined, according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will." And so what we would call biblical, philosophers would call theological determinism. The determinism that counts God as the primary factor. And that's where I'd line up, you know, and even within Christianity. We have debates about, where does freewill end and God's predestining will begin. I don't know. I just know that he has given us a choice and a call to believe and when we get to the other side, we will say, "And that was his plan all along." All I know is that God is sovereign. God is good, I trust Him, and He's all powerful. I don't have to worry about the random forces of the universe and what might, whoops, happen to me today, because I've got a God above me. And in whom He's literally, scripture, as the old African spiritual goes, "He's got the whole world in his hands," and He does, He's got me and He's got you. And whatever you're facing today my friends, He's got this, whatever accident may be fall, that appears to be so outwardly, who can ever know the factors that go into things. God rules and overrules again and again. We trust his plan.

Ben Poole
You know, this is an interesting topic because, it kind of goes against almost every faith belief. I mean, every, every belief system has this cause and effect.

Gary Schick
Even the belief in just, science.

Ben Poole
Absolutely. And so I think it's something we need to be careful of to not fall into any traps that Satan may use to sway people away from the truth. Because as someone may claim to have no faith, they can look at the world and say, "You know, the big bang just happened. These things just happen, there's no reasoning behind it. There's no reasoning behind how life came about, it just happened. Everything just happened to fall into the right place at the right time for the right amount of time. And it just happened." And to me, and what I know about the truth of God's word and the truth that I believe is not taught enough. I don't think this is impossible, that things just happen. I do believe a hundred percent in free will, that we have a choice in how we're going to live and what we're going to do, but I don't think even that was by accident. I think that there has been a plan, and I think if you look at the scriptures from beginning of Genesis 1 to the end of Revelation. You see this beautiful plan that has been laid out. How God used, well take Rehab for instance, a prostitute who was not an Israelite became part of the lineage of Christ. Ruth as well, who was not an Israelite. The three women talked about in Jesus's lineage is Rahab, Ruth, and Mary, and these are people that should not have been involved.

Gary Schick
Well, and don't forget Bathsheba.

Ben Poole
And Bathsheba yeah, a hundred percent. I mean, there's just so much of this cause and effect, and I don't think cause and effect just happens. I think there has got to be a plan in place, and I think it's simply just read the scriptures and see how God works through different scenarios. And now in those scenarios, He lets choices be made. He lets David and Bathsheba, God allowed that to happen.

Gary Schick
Yep, He doesn't will sin, but he knew is was coming, and he knew what he was going to do in response. You know, actually I'm glad you said these things Ben, because you mentioned Ruth. It takes me back to my seminary days, when I was learning Hebrew. And one Hebrew word, this kind of sums up accidentalism, it's the word "וזה קרה." It means, "And it happened." And so at the beginning of Ruth, we read "וזה קרה" and it happened that there was a famine in the land. And so Naomi, her husband and their two sons Mahlon and Kilion, they head off to, they just sort of happened to go off to Moab. And these boys happened to marry these gals, and they happened to die there. And then, but you know what, Ruth is an integral part of God's plan for Jesus. And so it's kind of, from our perspective, there's a lot of accidentalism, there's a lot of "וזה קרה," there's a lot of, "And it happened." And then there's what we also read in scripture, "But God." You know, and we see the divine hand of providence and, that was a key word. I'm seeing you wearing kind of a patriotic shirt today and tomorrow as we're sitting here, it's veteran's day, but it'll be yesterday when you all are listening to it out there on the radio. You know, providence was a word, even the unbelievers among our founding fathers who didn't know Jesus, they believed in the hand of providence. They believed in a providential power which we know as the Lord God, who for good orders things and has created an orderly world. I think you're right, I think the danger of this is sort of this idea. It's really a pagan idea of chaos. Kind of like the Greeks who believed, in the beginning was the god Chaos. And from Chaos comes all this, you know, that was scientific guys by Darwin, big bang, you know? "Oh, I didn't know that. Rule that scientific theory had religious rule." Yeah, It's actually old Greek paganism in a new form, the idea that it happened and there is no explanation, it just happened. But behind all things we believe in a God who was before all things and who in all and through all is working out his perfect plan, and I trust it.

Ben Poole
And that's really, the hope is, when I read up on this, I think, man, what is there? What's the point in waking up tomorrow? If accidentalism is truth, what's the point in any of this? And I think the encouragement for us, especially as Christians and that encouragement should take us out into the world to share the gospel, is there is a purpose. There is a plan that God has for each of us. And as a whole, as a big seed church, God has established us to be the hands and feet of Jesus here on Earth. This is, you and I are part of God's amazing plan through his grace. And that is such an honor and a privilege to be part of that in whatever way you play. Whether you're a pastor like us, or you're in the workforce or a stay at home mom, or whatever's going on in your life, you have purpose, you have a purpose in Christ. And so never, ever forget that. Which kind of makes me think about going into these holiday seasons. This is a time where a lot of people struggle. A lot of people struggle with depression, the loss of loved ones, especially over the last couple years has just been rough all around the world. Just this last week, I lost a classmate of mine, a young guy who had a wife and five little kids. And what's been amazing through that is, this wife of my friend is a major strong Christian. And through all the events that took place was able to minister to the nurses and the doctors to share her faith. And they got to see God work in that, because even through that hard time, there was a purpose that God was using. And we don't understand it, there's going to be times we don't have a clue what God is doing. But it's not an accident, it's not hidden from God. It's not like he doesn't understand what's happening, He's orchestrating this road before us. And we have the joy in Christ to walk this road as he leads. Yeah, so anyway, this is kind of a bigger topic than I thought it was going to be, a little more powerful. And I think it's just something that we can be encouraged by. And if you hear somebody talking about this, engage them in conversation. And enjoy that and listen to what they have to say. Really listen and see why, why would you believe something like this? And just listen to what they have to say, because I really believe in my experience, people want to talk about what they believe in as long as someone's willing to listen. And if we're willing to listen to people that are more apt to listen to what we have to say as well. So let that be your encouragement today that you are part of, God's amazing grace and this amazing plan that he has for all of us. Well, do you have anything else, Gary?

Gary Schick
Yeah, well, and I'm just thinking, you know, the scripture calls us, it says, "But continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling." But it does that within the context of what else scripture says, "He, who began a good work in you will carry it forward to completion until the day of Christ Jesus." So all we're called to do in Christ, we do with confidence in God's sovereign grace and plan.

What's New at the Cross Reference Library? Difficult Conversations

Time for the Talk -  Time for the Talk will help fathers walk their sons through one of the most important conversations of their lives. “The Talk” is much broader than just a talk about sexuality; it’s a conversation about manhood, about right decisions, about Christ. Time for the Talk will assist you in giving your son what he needs to steer through the moral and spiritual confusion of this world and make wise, godly, character-forming decisions. You will be equipping him to enter true manhood--a passage that many young men today never make. This book not only provides a complete framework for discussing the key areas of manhood that every boy should learn from his father; it also guides you into developing a relationship based on truth and love that will endure for life. 

Challenging Conversations - When was the last time you had an honest, heartfelt, yet kind and productive conversation with someone about depression, mental illness, substance abuse, pornography, premarital sex, racism, divorce, abortion, LGBT issues, or politics? Our tendency is either to avoid talking about such volatile topics at all-even with other Christians-or to go on the attack, causing rifts that do nothing to encourage further discussion or growth. If you’re tired of avoiding tough conversations, if you want to be a light in a dark world but you’re not sure how, Challenging Conversations, from Perspectives: A Summit Ministries Series, is the book you’ve been waiting for. With straightforward answers to some of the most challenging moral issues disrupting the church, this book will help you build your confidence with three simple steps to becoming a conversant Christian. Each chapter begins with a true story, clarifies misconceptions and misunderstandings about the subject, and equips you to build rapport, ask the right questions, find points of agreement, and take the next fruitful step in the relationship. Because even if we disagree on a moral issue, that shouldn’t make us mortal enemies.

 On Pills and Needles - When Rick Van Warner found himself searching abandoned buildings for his missing son, he had no idea that the synthetic, pill-form heroin that had snared his teen was already killing so many. In the years of pain and heartache that followed as he tried to save his son from addiction, Van Warner discovered what the public has just recently become aware of: prescription opioids are so addictive that even short-term use can create dependency, igniting an epidemic that now claims nearly 100 American lives each day. On Pills and Needles is one family’s story, but it is also a wake-up call and crash course in opioid addiction. Through his harrowing personal journey, Van Warner exposes the common causes of opioid addiction, effective and ineffective ways it has been treated, and how families can walk alongside loved ones who are dealing with the daily agony of addiction.