What Should Christians Do With Thanksgiving? - Ask the Pastor

You can listen to Ask The Pastor every weekday at 9:00am MST on 97.1FM Hope Radio KCMI! You can also listen and subscribe to Ask The Pastor in your favorite podcast feed. Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Stitcher, Amazon Music and most other podcast services.

This edition of Ask the Pastor features Pastors Gary Hashley, Tim Hebbert and Brad Kilthau.

Brad Kilthau
We've got a timely question to think about today as we're moving into Thanksgiving this week. And the question goes like this, "What do, or should Christians do with the holiday of Thanksgiving?" We wouldn't think that would be a question we'd have to ask, but today we do. And we have to remember that when we think about Thanksgiving, it is just, flat-out remembering God's blessings in difficult circumstances. And so fitting for us today, as we think about where we are as a nation and some of the things that are coming up against us today in our country. But we have to also look back in history, because Thanksgiving holiday has been celebrated on and off in the United States since 1789, when President George Washington declared it as a national holiday. And then President Abraham Lincoln made it a regular national holiday in 1863. I thought that was kind of ironic that two presidents that probably went through some very difficult times in this nation are mentioned as bringing this holiday to the forefront. But the reason for the holiday is to remember God's blessing. Especially God's provision and care for the pilgrims, the first European settlers that came to America. And as history tells us, they arrived from England in 1620, and there was a group of Christians among them that were seeking land to make a new life for themselves. They were seeking to come to a place of where they could worship God in freedom. But however, when they arrived in North America, it was late, too late that is, to plant food or anything that would make for harvest. And so they didn't have much food during that first cold snowy winter in the Massachusetts bay colony. And many of them died during the winter. In fact, as I was looking up a little bit of this history, 46 out of the 102 pilgrims perished that winter. In spring though, the local Native American Indians helped them plant what they needed to plant that would grow. That is corn and beans and squash, and when harvest time came around, the pilgrims had an abundance of food. And as history tells us, there was so much to eat they invited their new friends, the local Native American Indians, to celebrate with them. They had a big feast. They praised God for helping them survive the winter and providing new friends and abundant food. Now, even though they had endured much suffering, now was still a time to rejoice because those that did survive, they realized that the only reason they survived was because God looked out for them. God brought them to this new land. God gave them the privilege to worship and freedom and spirit and truth, and they had it right. That is all blessings do come from God. And we think often of the verse found in James 1:17 that says, "Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above comes down from the father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow of turning." And for Christians in the United States, as we get back to our question, Thanksgiving is not only a time for food and family, as great as that is, but it is more importantly a time that we thank God for the good provisions in the care that he shows for us every day. He shared that with the original American settlers, He's still sharing that with us today. He has blessed our nation so much, but we also have to remember that the percentage of Christians in America today compared to what it was in the mid-1800's, when this holiday was first coming into being instituted in our country, that percentage isn't even close. And so we have many Americans that don't thank God on Thanksgiving day in this nation. But for those of us who trust in Christ, we remember that our families, the food, provisions we have, we know it didn't come from us. It isn't because of our work alone, but it is all a blessing that God has given to us. God is our creator, He's our provider, and it's good for us to take time to thank Him, especially on this time of year. And they actually have a holiday that, encourages us to do that. In fact, again, in the Bible, it says in 1 Thessalonians 5:18, "Give thanks in all circumstances for this is God's will for you in Christ Jesus." And so guys, I want to kind of continue the talk about Thanksgiving and Tim, what are some of the ways for Christians to correctly celebrate Thanksgiving?

Tim Hebbert
You know, I think it can be just about anything you really want, as long as it's from the heart. I always feel like one of the ways to celebrate Thanksgiving is to share the goodness of God with somebody less fortunate than you are. Here at the church, the last several years, our Kids Club on Wednesday night, collects food goods and one of our ladies groups combines with them. And they purchase and deliver to, I think this year was about 20 families. Several of them were shut in elderly people, who needed some good food, some things just to let them know that there are people in the community that care about them. And our home celebration, my family's celebration, it's probably Sandy and mine's favorite holiday of the year. To your point, I think it's become secularized, just like Christmas and Easter has. But in our home, my whole family gathers and we typically have, a half a dozen people, either from the church here, or maybe friends that we know don't have somewhere to light on that day and we invite them to our home. But everybody comes at 10 o'clock in the morning. And everybody that comes is in charge of preparing something for the meal.

And we typically stop on the hour, at the top of the hour, every hour around and gather in a circle and everybody shares a thankfulness that they have of what's gone on in the last year. For me last year, to be honest, I was just thankful that I had health enough to have my family there. I had just gotten over COVID, that turned into pneumonia, and so I was thankful for that. But that's typically, for me I think of Thanksgiving anytime the Lord gives me a heart of Thanksgiving. I want to try to share that with someone, and so one of the ways is to serve other people. But another way I believe that honors God is to draw people into your close knit circle. You know, so to speak, and share that love for the Lord and that thanksgiving for the Lord with them. Because sometimes I think we take the goodness of God, well now I shouldn't say sometimes, when we're not careful, we always take the goodness of God for granted, and we're not near thankful enough. I don't know. What do you guys do for Thanksgiving typically at the church or at your home?

Gary Hashley
Well, Thanksgiving for me was always a very special time, because I was a ministry kid and we didn't live near my grandparents on either side. And my dad's family, he was one of nine, they only got together three times a year Thanksgiving, Christmas, and Easter. So between Easter and Thanksgiving, I never saw my cousins, and there were over 30 of us cousins. I never saw my cousins. So they were great times when we would fill my Aunt Juanita's house, because she had the only house big enough for grandma and grandpa and nine, their kids with their spouses and then 30 some grandchildren total to get together. It was a very special time to get together with them, but we always had a time with just my dad and mom and my sister and brother and I. It was very, very special time for me, and we'd like to carry that on in our family. I mean, we have a daughter in Colorado and a daughter in Helena with their families, Helena, Montana, and a son who's now in Indianapolis. So we are together a lot, and we look forward to those times when at least part of us, rarely is it all of us, part of us can get together. Where I pastor there at Calvary Memorial, they started a routine, a pattern years ago when the church first started back in the mid-1960s of having a large, we call it feast of thanks. It is a very full house, full blown Thanksgiving dinner that we get together. This year we had about nearly 200 people in house and plus we delivered meals to shut-ins, and just had a great and wonderful time. We do it early in the month, that way we set the tone. I feel like it really kicks off my holiday season for Thanksgiving, Christmas, New Years, to be able to do just that. But it is a great time. What about Community Bible Brad?

Brad Kilthau
Well, Gary we do the same type of thing, in fact, we just went through it this past weekend. We call it a Praise Service of Thanksgiving, and we just kind of open up the service time for people to give their personal testimonies and praises of great things that have happened in their life through the past year. We had a lot of people who would stand up and share a lot of bad things that happened as most of us can attest to. I think that those times are testing, but in every time of those testing's they always saw the goodness of God through that. And so they dwelt more on the goodness that God showed to them through those difficult times that they've been going through in their lives. And also just take a little bit of time to look at the little things that God blesses us with. And then after the service, of course, we have a carry-in meal in the same way. We kind of theme it towards Thanksgiving, decorate the fellowship hall, and everybody gets together for the meal. And then of course, as Tim was sharing here, we also do the same thing. We deliver meals earlier in the week to those who are needy, and the women's ministry does a tremendous job of putting together a huge box of food and a big Turkey and all of that, and the trimmings to go. And what they do is they ask me to deliver it to people in need. No one in the church knows where these packages go to except for myself. And some things that I've been coming across the last few years is just this, it's not only people in a physical need, but sometimes people are in an emotional need. They're struggling with some difficult times in their life, and this meal just shows an expression of love from the church. And so, yeah, guys, it's a great time of year just to get the body of Christ together. And again, coming back to, what is Thanksgiving all about? It's just remembering God's blessing in the difficult circumstances of life and seeing God through all of that.

Gary Hashley
Yeah, Thanksgiving as I was growing up in Michigan was a day to eat Turkey and watch the Detroit lions lose a football game, because that was generally the pattern. But most of us think of family, but we all ought to think of God. The very first Psalm I ever memorized in totality, it was Vacation Bible School as a young boy, and I got points for memorizing Psalm 100. "Make a joyful noise to the Lord, all you lands. Serve the Lord with gladness, come before His presence with singing, know that the Lord He's God. It is He was made us and not we ourselves. We are His people and the sheep of His pasture. Enter His gates with thanksgiving and His courts with praise. Give thanks to Him and bless His name for the Lord is good. His steadfast love endures forever and his faithfulness to all generations." I look at that Psalm and the first four verses, are kind of the what of Thanksgiving and the last verse, verse number five is the why. And as you think of the what, there are several action words in Psalm 100: make a joyful noise, serve the Lord, come into His presence, know that the Lord is God, enter His gates with thanksgiving, give thanks to Him, bless His name. And I think a real good lesson from that is thankfulness is an action word. It's not just what we say, but it's what we do in response to what we would say because, and I love it. It says, "Know that the Lord is God." And then in verse five, "For the Lord is good." He's God, and He's good. And it's really, you know, what we should be focusing on, that God is God and God is good. So those first four verses have all those action words telling us, you know, what we can do, but the why is verse five, "For the Lord is good His steadfast love endures forever and his faithfulness to all generations." And I think what I need to remind myself of frequently guys is that, things may not feel good. Circumstances may not be describable as good, but God is good, and that's the thing I'm thankful for. Many have gone through some really tough times. There was an automobile accident on 85, between Torrington and Bear Mountain Station, and two Frontier School of the Bible students were killed. A friend of mine and his son and his son's girlfriend were killed in an airplane crash last night. There are things that aren't really enjoyable, but we can be thankful people because the Lord is good, His love endures, His faithfulness is here for all generations.

What's New at the Cross Reference Library? Coming of Age

Aggressive Girls, Clueless Boys - “Can you sneak out tonight?” What a brazen question for a tween girl to text a boy! In our sex-saturated world, how can parents address th idiomatic upswing of sexually forward girls in hot pursuit of their young sons? Aggressive Girls, Clueless Boys offers a solution to this unsettling cultural trend. Through seven guided “Talk About It” conversations, what-if scenarios, and honest responses to questions from real-life parents, Dennis Rainey offers a detailed guide on teaching your adolescent son to set boundaries and pursue the right kind of girl. It’s time for straight talk with your son! Give him the courage to stand strong in a world enticing him to throw away his sexual purity. 

When They Turn Away - We desperately want our children to have deep faith and a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. We want to arrive safely home in heaven together with our children. But what happens if our adult child leaves the church and turns away from the faith of his or  her childhood? Writing with compassion and honesty, author and pastor Rob Rienow shares a powerful message of hope: it’s never too late to point an adult child’s heart toward God. When They Turn Away shows you how to take a proactive role in leading your child back to faith through four biblical and practical steps: 

• Offer your heart to the Lord 

• Turn your heart to your child 

• Draw your child’s heart to yours

• Point your child’s heart to Christ

My Favorite Senior Moments - Ah, those senior moments we dread...and yet laugh about. Gentle humorist Karen O’Connor tickles your funny bone in these senior moments that also highlight the many blessings of living long. You’ll chuckle and want to share these stories that reveal the sunny...and funny...sides of life. They’ll encourage you to: 

• Embrace with good humor the startling honesty of grandkids 

• Go with the flow when you make silly mistakes 

• Choose to be optimistic instead of opting for pessimism

Yes, remember the good old days, but also look for the good in today. God is with you every step of the way--senior moments and all.

Is Prayer Effective? - Ask the Pastor

You can listen to Ask The Pastor every weekday at 9:00am MST on 97.1FM Hope Radio KCMI! You can also listen and subscribe to Ask The Pastor in your favorite podcast feed. Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Stitcher, Amazon Music and most other podcast services.

This edition of Ask the Pastor features Pastors Gary Hashley, Tim Hebbert and Brad Kilthau.

Gary Hashley
The question today that we are going to look at says, "What about prayer? Is it really effective in accomplishing anything? Or is it just something we do when there is nothing else to do to make us feel better?" What about prayer? You know, there are those who say "Prayer, you know, if you pray in the right way, you can have anything you want." And there are those who say, "Well, prayer doesn't change anything." I don't think either of those perspectives is accurate. But there are those who get discouraged, because they wonder if prayer really makes any difference. I received a missionary letter from a friend of mine who is with, God's Helping Hands, a children's ministry in Michigan, and he tells about speaking. One of their teams was at a camp this past summer, and they met a boy named Danny. And Danny came and he talked to Chris after chapel. And he said, "Uncle Chris, I just wanted to tell you that I don't believe in God." Chris responds, "Why not?" And the boy says, "Because I tried praying to him and nothing happened, nothing changed. I heard no voice, not even a tingly feeling." Chris replied, "So you expected him to answer you your way?" And this boy said, "I prayed for five years and nothing happened." He said, "How do you know nothing happened?" He said, "Look, I haven't believed in God since I was five, okay?" And he says, "Tell me something, how old are you now?" And the boy answered, "Nine." So here's a boy that in his youth, in his young life had tried this thing called prayer. And whatever it was, he doesn't say what he was asking God to do. Maybe it was, you know, get his parents back together, maybe it was, heal Grandma. I don't know what it was, maybe he wanted a pony for Christmas. But whatever he had prayed about, he felt it was a waste of time to pray. And at nine years old, he was already saying, "I don't believe in God." And he based it totally on, "I prayed and nothing changed. I heard no voice, not even a tingly feeling." So part of that question I'd like to look at before I pass it off to my brothers here is, is prayer really effective in accomplishing anything? So I sat down today and I thought, okay, where are examples in scripture where prayer made a difference? And King Hezekiah in his life, in the record of his life in 2 Kings, we find two times when his prayer made a huge difference. In chapter 19, we find Hezekiah concerned because the Assyrians had showed up with an army way bigger than his, way stronger than his, and more equipped than his. And he goes to God and he prays for God to help them, and however God was going to help them, but to help them. And we find that in the night, God struck down 185,000 of the Assyrians. And when the Israelites came, they found that there were just all these dead bodies where the camp of the Assyrians had been. Another time in Hezekiah's life, the next chapter, chapter 20, God sends word to Hezekiah, "You're going to die." And it says, "Hezekiah turned his face to the wall and he prayed." And we find that God sends the prophet back and says, "God heard your prayer, and he's going to extend your life." And he did, 15 years longer. He was healed of the disease that supposedly was going to take his life, and he was now living on for more than a decade. Then I look in the New Testament, Peter's in prison, and the church gets together and prays. And an angel shows up, Peter thinks he's dreaming, angel shows up and gets him out of prison. He goes and knocks on the door where the people are praying, at first they don't even believe it. I don't think they were even praying in faith. They don't believe it until they find out, really it is Peter. And I think of James 4:2, which says you do not have, because you do not ask. So the part of the question I was asked to deal with, is prayer really effective in accomplishing anything? I would say yes based upon scripture, and I would say yes, based upon personal experience. I have seen God step in and respond to prayers in an outstanding, miraculous, over-the-top way. Does He always do what I ask him to do? No, because sometimes his answer is, "No Gary, I have a better idea," and I just need to trust Him in that. So Tim, we're going to shift over to your microphone, and does prayer just make us feel better when there's nothing else we can do? So grab that one and run.

Tim Hebbert
You know, I think the wording of the question, it says a lot, does prayer just make us feel better when nothing else will do? Implying that prayer is the last thing we do, not the first thing that we do. And when I look up just the whole process of prayer, prayer is not a button to push, but it's a relationship to be built. I know you guys agree with me, but I view prayer time as an intimate conversation with my father. And I can look to my earthly father, who's at heritage, and when I can get in to see him now, if I've got questions, if I'm needing advice, I still get it from him. Anytime I walk in and sit down and begin to have a conversation with him, I still have that sense. And do I feel better when I pray? Oh, absolutely. And I think I feel better when I pray, because I sense the intimacy. I'm not, I don't know where you guys are at with this, but I do ask, I do seek, I do knock. But I have learned over the course of my life to come with the only expectation that a sovereign God is going to do what He knows is best. But prayer reminds me that He listens, that He cares, that He's concerned, that He loves me. And so, yeah, that does make me feel better. Does it just make me feel better, just because I've said a few prayers? The person out there in the world that doesn't believe in God that thinks prayer is useless, that's what they're going to argue to you. That, "Well, it's just you saying some words and it makes you feel better." Well, for me, prayer is not necessarily about what I have to say, but shutting my mouth once in awhile and just sitting and soaking in the presence of God and letting his presence nourish me. So yes, that absolutely makes me feel better. But I think if we would start there more often than in there, maybe we wouldn't need to go any anywhere else. Because I think God wants us to bring things to Him first, not try to figure it all out on our own. And when, you know, we need an escape clause, "Okay now I'm going to go pray." But, anyway, that's my two cents. So Brad?

Brad Kilthau
Well, I think that's a good two cents Tim, I like that. That was good. And, you know, I think as we kind of finish this thought up today is, you know, prayer should be a basic part of the believers life. Somebody once said that, "Prayer is supposed to be like breathing for a Christian, easier to do than not to do." And it shouldn't be just like, "I got to do this," you know. And we do pray for a variety of reasons, I'll just give you just a few here." One is, prayer is a form of serving God, and you can study about that in Luke 2. Prayer is also, obeying God, because as we know in Philippians 4, those very famous verses six and seven, it says, "Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving, let your request be made known to God," and here it is what you're talking about Tim, "And the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding will guard your heart and mind through Christ Jesus." Hey, if we got anything we need in life, God says, "Pray," it's a commandment. And if we look in the Bible, if Jesus thought it was worthwhile to pray, and he did a lot, it's obviously got to be for us. And then another reason to pray is that, God has his will, right? And we have to find that. And so prayer is a way of finding God's will. There are situations that come up in our life and yeah we've always got the answer, but as you guys are both saying, God's got the real answer. And so we find that in prayer. Prayer is also a way to prepare for major decisions. As we know in Luke 6, Jesus prayed all night before choosing the apostles, okay? And so, we should be doing the same. I don't think we should approach any major decision in our life without praying. In fact, I don't think we should do little decisions. Some of the guys through the years that I've mentored, some of the young men, I'll even tell them, "Hey, if you're out working in the field sometime and there's a bolt or a nut that's rusted into this piece of equipment and you can't get it loose, and you're struggling with it." I said, "Step back and pray that God would loosen it up." And they'll come back often and say, "You know what? I did that, and God loosened it up." You know, that's the way our God works. Prayer also helps us overcome demonic barriers in life. There's a lot of demonic barriers around us right now, and sometimes they box us in and prayer helps us to get past those barriers. Prayer also helps us get workers for the harvest. May we never seek to bring workers into the harvest without first praying that God would bring the right people for the right place and the right means of serving. Prayer is a great way to strengthen us to overcome temptation. In fact, in Matthew 26, we're told, watch and pray, as Jesus said to his followers, "Unless you enter into temptation, the spirit is indeed willing, but the flesh is weak." And I think we could all say, "Yeah, our flesh is so often so weak." Prayer is a huge tool of overcoming temptation. And also prayer is used to strengthen others spiritually. We must not ever forget about that. And I think as pastors, we think of this a lot, maybe more than sometimes, other folks do in the church. But I don't know about you guys, but I'm always praying for somebody's spiritual growth, praying for their spiritual strength. And sometimes it has to come in a hard prayer because sometimes they're going through a tough time in life. Maybe it's financial, maybe it's their health. And they're asking me as the pastor to pray that their health would be restored or their finances would come in to meet their need. And often I'll find myself going to the Lord and saying, "Yes, there is that need, but would you please strengthen this person through that situation in their life? May they grow spiritually through this thing." Because really that's the main purpose of struggles that in our life. And Gary, you were saying how you're coming into the book of James and you're in your teaching series right now. And we find that's shared a lot in the book of James, of how testing strengthens us. And so that's a good thing actually in our life. So, you know, prayer again is a huge, vital, important part of our Christian life. And also somebody else once said this, "Prayer is like sharing the gospel with people. We do not know who will respond to the message of the gospel until we share it. But in the same way, we will never see the results of an answered prayer, unless we first pray." And yeah, when we pray and we see God answer those prayers, what an uplift of our spirit to see God working. Little things, big things, when we pray, and some people will even write this down in their morning devotion notes and carry that and look back and see how God answered that prayer. And it just lifts their spirit, encourages them and helps them to walk in their faith.

Gary Hashley
You know, there was a book that came out a number of years ago called, The Prayer of Jabez, just a little booklet. And there was one imagination scene in that book where he said, "He saw, in heaven, this mound of packages. This huge mountain of packages. And in his imagining, it was, he imagined asking God, "What is that mountain of packages?" And God's response was, "That's answers to prayers that were never prayed." And I wonder sometimes, you know, when James says, "You have not, because you ask not," we fail to pray. And like Tim, we fail to pray first, we see it as a last resort. But I don't want to get to heaven and find out that there really is a pile of answers and I just never bothered to pray.

Brad Kilthau
Right. And, you know, I guess when we think about our prayer life, you know, a lack of prayer really demonstrates a lack of faith kind of as Tim was alluding to, too. And a lack of trusting in God's word, because again, as has already been shared in our conversation, when we pray according to God's will, He promises to answer that. He promises to answer that prayer according to His will. And so if there's a decision in my life that needs to be made, or if there's a problem in somebody else's life, God's got the best answer. And so, if I pray to Him for his answer and for His will to be done, it's going to be perfect. And so that again, we're trusting in God when we pray like that. And so, yeah, God wants us to come to His throne. Jesus is our high priest right there. He opens the gate and lets us into the throne room with the father, and we can come in and pray at any time. And He loves to see us there approaching the father in that way. So good discussion guys that we had about prayer today, and there's a lot to say about it obviously, but we'll get to that maybe in another time.

What's New at the Cross Reference Library? Let's be Honest!

A Flicker of Light -  For generations, the Jensen’s have raised their families in the small Montana town of Moose Creek, where gossip spreads faster than the wind. Yet some secrets need to be told. When twenty-one-year-old Bea discovers she’s pregnant on the heels of her husband losing his job, she’s forced to admit she needs help and asks her dad for a place to stay. But past resentments keep her from telling him all that’s going on. Mitch Jensen is thrilled to have a full house again, though he’s unimpressed with Bea’s decisions: dropping out of college, marrying so young--and to an idealistic city kid, of all things. Mitch hopes to convince Bea to return to the path he’s always envisioned for her, but she’s changed since her mom died. And he refuses to admit how much he’s changed, too, especially now that he might be losing his mother as well. Grandma June is good at spinning stories, but there’s one she’s never told. Now that her mind is starting to fade, her time to tell it is running out. But if she reveals the truth before her memories are gone forever, the Jensen family will never be the same. 

Straight Up - Are you looking for someone who’s not afraid to tell you the truth? Or a real source of wisdom when things get real? With his trademark combination of raw honesty backed by practical next steps, former NFL player Trent Shelton helps you navigate some of the most confusing topics you face, including relationships, friendships, fear, depression, and even your own past trauma. And while none of us make it out of the storms of life unscathed, the insight and lessons you’ll find in these pages can help you make it out stronger. Organized into 52 different bite-sized chunks of content you can pick up and read anytime you are looking for advice, searching  for answers, or just need a lift, this collection of real and raw, honest and practical wisdom will help you take the next important steps toward being the best you and living your best life. 

Undaunted Hope - Running from the mistakes of her past, Tessa Taylor heads to the uppermost reaches of Michigan, planning to serve as the new teacher to the children of miners. She quickly learns the town had requested a male teacher, but Percival Updegraff, superintendent and chief mine clerk, says she can stay through winter since it’s too late to replace her. Tessa can’t help but thank him and say she is in his debt. Determined to make herself irreplaceable once spring thaw arrives, Tessa throws herself  into her work, and soon two students have decided Miss Taylor is the right match for their grieving father. At the same time, charming assistant lightkeeper Alex Bjorklund makes his interest known, surprising Tessa, who has never had men fight for her hand before. But not all is well as she feels that someone is tracking her every move, and she may not be able to escape the trap that has been laid for her. 

It has been said that, “Honesty is the best policy,” but if that is the case, why do we all have so much trouble being honest with friends, family, and even ourselves. The books I read through this week all contain people and characters who struggle with doing just that. Believing it would be best for everyone involved, these characters keep the burdens of their past hidden. But as much as they deny it, those burdens will continue to weigh them down, the longer they keep them inside. In A Flicker of Light, it follows the story of Bea Michaels and her grandmother June Jensen who find themselves keeping a couple of big secrets from those who care about them. June intends to keep that part of her past safe, but as her memories start to slip away due to the effects of Alzheimer's disease, her hold on that lifelong secret starts to slip away also. In Bea’s case, she believed that if she waited to tell her dad about her pregnancy then she could prove to him that she didn’t waste her life by marrying young. It doesn’t matter if we are 20 or even 60 years old, when we keep something hidden in order to avoid conflict, the conflict always comes back to bite us in some way or another. And that is one of the many things Trent Shelton talks about in his book, Straight Up. Trent reminds us that being honest with ourselves is just as important as being honest with those around us. One truth that he gave us right away was, “Denying reality never helps.” You want to show that everything is just fine, while in reality it's time for you to ask for help. The last book I looked at was Undaunted Hope, which is the third book in the Beacons of Hope Series. In the previous book, Hearts Made Whole, Tessa Taylor betrayed her sister and ruined her own reputation in the process. Even though her sister Caroline ended up with the man and the job of her dreams, we are left wondering what will happen to Tessa. This book answers that question as we find Tessa trying to get a fresh start in Eagle Harbor, Michigan. But with a past as dark as hers, would a fresh start even be possible? To be honest if you want to find out what happens in these great page-turners, come on down to the Cross Reference Library and find out if the rumors in between the covers are true.

What is Accidentalism? - Ask the Pastor

You can listen to Ask The Pastor every weekday at 9:00am MST on 97.1FM Hope Radio KCMI! You can also listen and subscribe to Ask The Pastor in your favorite podcast feed. Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Stitcher, Amazon Music and most other podcast services.

This edition of Ask the Pastor features Pastors Ben Poole and Gary Schick.

Ben Poole
So our question is one again that I had to do a little bit of research on. It was a new topic I hadn't heard of, and so here it is. "I recently heard a new term I've never heard before. Can you tell me what accidentalism means?" And so I, to some degree figured it's probably self-explanatory, but I'd never really heard it this way as a philosophy or a point people are trying to use. So, Gary, what have you found on this?

Gary Schick
Well, you know, I went to that great source of knowledge, Wikipedia. And essentially, "In philosophy, accidentalism denies the causal closure of physical determinism and maintains that events can succeed one another haphazardly or by chance (not in the mathematical, but in the popular sense). Opponents of accidentalism maintained that what seems to be a chance occurrence is actually the result of one or more causes that remain unknown due only to a lack of investigation. Charles Sanders Pierce used the term tychism (from the Greek word τύχη, meaning chance) for theories that make chance an objective factor in the process of the universe." Kind of brought my mind back to the first Jurassic Park movie where that one scientist in the helicopter was talking about chaos theory, you know, like you can't predict it. And so, you know, is there some truth to this? Sure and it's opposite is a determinism and there's a variety of forms of causal determinism. And so the theory of causal determinism, is basically the idea that everything is part of a chain of events, one leading to causing another, like the domino effect. And if you're a fan, I'm a fan of the old, Sherlock Holmes stories, you know, that's basically causal determinism. You know, Holmes would look at Watson and tell him, you know, "See your brother had a bad day today." "What, how do you know?" "Well, because you know, you've got a hair move to your left on your forehead and that's caused by the wind. And wind was blowing that way in your face because you were turned that way. And you were turned that way because you were concerned." At the end, it's like, "Oh, sure, I see how it all fits together," but you're always mystified by Sherlock Holmes. How he could see to the bottom of everything. And so this is kind of the opposite theory. This is, nope things just happen. And so where do we as Christians line up on this, is this even a topic for us today? Ask the pastor? Well, maybe in the sense that Ephesians 1:11 says, speaking of Jesus, "In Him, Jesus, we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined, according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will." And so what we would call biblical, philosophers would call theological determinism. The determinism that counts God as the primary factor. And that's where I'd line up, you know, and even within Christianity. We have debates about, where does freewill end and God's predestining will begin. I don't know. I just know that he has given us a choice and a call to believe and when we get to the other side, we will say, "And that was his plan all along." All I know is that God is sovereign. God is good, I trust Him, and He's all powerful. I don't have to worry about the random forces of the universe and what might, whoops, happen to me today, because I've got a God above me. And in whom He's literally, scripture, as the old African spiritual goes, "He's got the whole world in his hands," and He does, He's got me and He's got you. And whatever you're facing today my friends, He's got this, whatever accident may be fall, that appears to be so outwardly, who can ever know the factors that go into things. God rules and overrules again and again. We trust his plan.

Ben Poole
You know, this is an interesting topic because, it kind of goes against almost every faith belief. I mean, every, every belief system has this cause and effect.

Gary Schick
Even the belief in just, science.

Ben Poole
Absolutely. And so I think it's something we need to be careful of to not fall into any traps that Satan may use to sway people away from the truth. Because as someone may claim to have no faith, they can look at the world and say, "You know, the big bang just happened. These things just happen, there's no reasoning behind it. There's no reasoning behind how life came about, it just happened. Everything just happened to fall into the right place at the right time for the right amount of time. And it just happened." And to me, and what I know about the truth of God's word and the truth that I believe is not taught enough. I don't think this is impossible, that things just happen. I do believe a hundred percent in free will, that we have a choice in how we're going to live and what we're going to do, but I don't think even that was by accident. I think that there has been a plan, and I think if you look at the scriptures from beginning of Genesis 1 to the end of Revelation. You see this beautiful plan that has been laid out. How God used, well take Rehab for instance, a prostitute who was not an Israelite became part of the lineage of Christ. Ruth as well, who was not an Israelite. The three women talked about in Jesus's lineage is Rahab, Ruth, and Mary, and these are people that should not have been involved.

Gary Schick
Well, and don't forget Bathsheba.

Ben Poole
And Bathsheba yeah, a hundred percent. I mean, there's just so much of this cause and effect, and I don't think cause and effect just happens. I think there has got to be a plan in place, and I think it's simply just read the scriptures and see how God works through different scenarios. And now in those scenarios, He lets choices be made. He lets David and Bathsheba, God allowed that to happen.

Gary Schick
Yep, He doesn't will sin, but he knew is was coming, and he knew what he was going to do in response. You know, actually I'm glad you said these things Ben, because you mentioned Ruth. It takes me back to my seminary days, when I was learning Hebrew. And one Hebrew word, this kind of sums up accidentalism, it's the word "וזה קרה." It means, "And it happened." And so at the beginning of Ruth, we read "וזה קרה" and it happened that there was a famine in the land. And so Naomi, her husband and their two sons Mahlon and Kilion, they head off to, they just sort of happened to go off to Moab. And these boys happened to marry these gals, and they happened to die there. And then, but you know what, Ruth is an integral part of God's plan for Jesus. And so it's kind of, from our perspective, there's a lot of accidentalism, there's a lot of "וזה קרה," there's a lot of, "And it happened." And then there's what we also read in scripture, "But God." You know, and we see the divine hand of providence and, that was a key word. I'm seeing you wearing kind of a patriotic shirt today and tomorrow as we're sitting here, it's veteran's day, but it'll be yesterday when you all are listening to it out there on the radio. You know, providence was a word, even the unbelievers among our founding fathers who didn't know Jesus, they believed in the hand of providence. They believed in a providential power which we know as the Lord God, who for good orders things and has created an orderly world. I think you're right, I think the danger of this is sort of this idea. It's really a pagan idea of chaos. Kind of like the Greeks who believed, in the beginning was the god Chaos. And from Chaos comes all this, you know, that was scientific guys by Darwin, big bang, you know? "Oh, I didn't know that. Rule that scientific theory had religious rule." Yeah, It's actually old Greek paganism in a new form, the idea that it happened and there is no explanation, it just happened. But behind all things we believe in a God who was before all things and who in all and through all is working out his perfect plan, and I trust it.

Ben Poole
And that's really, the hope is, when I read up on this, I think, man, what is there? What's the point in waking up tomorrow? If accidentalism is truth, what's the point in any of this? And I think the encouragement for us, especially as Christians and that encouragement should take us out into the world to share the gospel, is there is a purpose. There is a plan that God has for each of us. And as a whole, as a big seed church, God has established us to be the hands and feet of Jesus here on Earth. This is, you and I are part of God's amazing plan through his grace. And that is such an honor and a privilege to be part of that in whatever way you play. Whether you're a pastor like us, or you're in the workforce or a stay at home mom, or whatever's going on in your life, you have purpose, you have a purpose in Christ. And so never, ever forget that. Which kind of makes me think about going into these holiday seasons. This is a time where a lot of people struggle. A lot of people struggle with depression, the loss of loved ones, especially over the last couple years has just been rough all around the world. Just this last week, I lost a classmate of mine, a young guy who had a wife and five little kids. And what's been amazing through that is, this wife of my friend is a major strong Christian. And through all the events that took place was able to minister to the nurses and the doctors to share her faith. And they got to see God work in that, because even through that hard time, there was a purpose that God was using. And we don't understand it, there's going to be times we don't have a clue what God is doing. But it's not an accident, it's not hidden from God. It's not like he doesn't understand what's happening, He's orchestrating this road before us. And we have the joy in Christ to walk this road as he leads. Yeah, so anyway, this is kind of a bigger topic than I thought it was going to be, a little more powerful. And I think it's just something that we can be encouraged by. And if you hear somebody talking about this, engage them in conversation. And enjoy that and listen to what they have to say. Really listen and see why, why would you believe something like this? And just listen to what they have to say, because I really believe in my experience, people want to talk about what they believe in as long as someone's willing to listen. And if we're willing to listen to people that are more apt to listen to what we have to say as well. So let that be your encouragement today that you are part of, God's amazing grace and this amazing plan that he has for all of us. Well, do you have anything else, Gary?

Gary Schick
Yeah, well, and I'm just thinking, you know, the scripture calls us, it says, "But continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling." But it does that within the context of what else scripture says, "He, who began a good work in you will carry it forward to completion until the day of Christ Jesus." So all we're called to do in Christ, we do with confidence in God's sovereign grace and plan.

What's New at the Cross Reference Library? Difficult Conversations

Time for the Talk -  Time for the Talk will help fathers walk their sons through one of the most important conversations of their lives. “The Talk” is much broader than just a talk about sexuality; it’s a conversation about manhood, about right decisions, about Christ. Time for the Talk will assist you in giving your son what he needs to steer through the moral and spiritual confusion of this world and make wise, godly, character-forming decisions. You will be equipping him to enter true manhood--a passage that many young men today never make. This book not only provides a complete framework for discussing the key areas of manhood that every boy should learn from his father; it also guides you into developing a relationship based on truth and love that will endure for life. 

Challenging Conversations - When was the last time you had an honest, heartfelt, yet kind and productive conversation with someone about depression, mental illness, substance abuse, pornography, premarital sex, racism, divorce, abortion, LGBT issues, or politics? Our tendency is either to avoid talking about such volatile topics at all-even with other Christians-or to go on the attack, causing rifts that do nothing to encourage further discussion or growth. If you’re tired of avoiding tough conversations, if you want to be a light in a dark world but you’re not sure how, Challenging Conversations, from Perspectives: A Summit Ministries Series, is the book you’ve been waiting for. With straightforward answers to some of the most challenging moral issues disrupting the church, this book will help you build your confidence with three simple steps to becoming a conversant Christian. Each chapter begins with a true story, clarifies misconceptions and misunderstandings about the subject, and equips you to build rapport, ask the right questions, find points of agreement, and take the next fruitful step in the relationship. Because even if we disagree on a moral issue, that shouldn’t make us mortal enemies.

 On Pills and Needles - When Rick Van Warner found himself searching abandoned buildings for his missing son, he had no idea that the synthetic, pill-form heroin that had snared his teen was already killing so many. In the years of pain and heartache that followed as he tried to save his son from addiction, Van Warner discovered what the public has just recently become aware of: prescription opioids are so addictive that even short-term use can create dependency, igniting an epidemic that now claims nearly 100 American lives each day. On Pills and Needles is one family’s story, but it is also a wake-up call and crash course in opioid addiction. Through his harrowing personal journey, Van Warner exposes the common causes of opioid addiction, effective and ineffective ways it has been treated, and how families can walk alongside loved ones who are dealing with the daily agony of addiction.

What is the Reformation Movement? - Ask the Pastor

You can listen to Ask The Pastor every weekday at 9:00am MST on 97.1FM Hope Radio KCMI! You can also listen and subscribe to Ask The Pastor in your favorite podcast feed. Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Stitcher, Amazon Music and most other podcast services.

This edition of Ask the Pastor features Pastors Ben Poole and Gary Schick.

Ben Poole
So this morning, our question is, "Could you talk a little about Martin Luther and the reformation movement? Take us on a little history to her about the reformation movement's beginnings, and how it has influenced the church of today." And so to be honest, I don't really know a lot about the reformation movement. However, I would probably be comfortable saying, if you're a Christian today and active in a church, a lot of that probably has to do with, because of some of these people, especially Martin Luther over 500 years ago, making some steps. And so we are part of that legacy, that living legacy of what happened hundreds of years ago. And so this has, maybe implications for us today as what happened so many years ago and what continues to go on. And so, Gary, I just open it up to you to kind of share some of that history with us and some thoughts on that.

Gary Schick
Well, of course, you know, one thing that we often just talk about and don't even think about is this idea of going back to the Bible. And of course that's where it begins, it begins with Jesus and the apostles 2000 years ago. So what's the big deal about what happened in the 1500s and how does that affect us? Well, over time, over 1500 years, as a matter of fact, the Bible was still there, but it was in, at that point, largely translated, it was translated into Latin. Which the educated knew, but the average people didn't know, they should know their own languages, that was one problem. And then the other thing is, is over the accumulation of time, some other ideas, it sort of accumulated, been largely accepted by Christians, that really weren't in the Bible. And so along comes this little old monk named Martin Luther who really wanted to get it right. He wanted to be saved and he was taught that he needed to confess every sin and he would go to his confessor and confess until his confessors were like, "Please Luther, don't come back until you've really gotten something, okay?" But you know, he had a very sensitive conscience and he knew from scripture that God is a holy God who cannot permit sin into his presence. And here he is trying to work his way into heaven. And finally, one day he's reading a scripture in the book of Romans 1:17, where he reads these words, "The just shall live by faith." And it's like a light goes off in his head. It's like, "That's the point of the cross, that's why Jesus, the sinless son of God came and died to wipe away my sins. The just shall live by faith." And then he goes on and he reads more deeply in Romans and he sees that it's not by works of the law, which we have done, but by faith in what Christ has done. As Paul later writes in Ephesians, "For it is by grace we are saved through faith and not by works that we have done." Yes, there are works that come along as a result of our salvation. You know, there are certain things I do because I'm an American, or because I'm the child of the parents that I come from, that reflect that. But that's not what makes me an American or makes me a member of my family. We are made children of God through faith in Christ, and as a result of that, not to add to what Jesus has done, we do these works. Well anyway, in that particular time, that wasn't the way it was being taught in the churches. And so, at one point Luther, actually October 31st, 1517, he writes up this long list of what are called theses, they're things for debate. And he hammers, them to the door of the Wittenberg chapel. Which is what people did in those days, you know, they didn't post online because there wasn't an online, they posted on the chapel door. And his plan was just to basically recall the church, reform the church back to scripture. And so he took up several of these things that had come in. For example, like the idea of, "Well we're saved by faith and works," well, no, the Bible didn't say that. You know, he reads about, Mary and Jesus's brothers in the Bible and the church is teaching that she never had any other children. But that's not really what the New Testament seems to indicate. He reads in the Bible that we confess our sins to God, and so why is he having to confess to his priest to have everything forgiven? And so on it goes, several things, you know, he has these questions about Mary and the saints, the apocryphal, the confession, but above all salvation. And also, just the idea of, in the Bible we read about heaven and hell, but the church was teaching about this place in between called purgatory. And that you had to either work your way out of it, which could take hundreds of years or buy your way out of it by paying indulgences to the church. And you could usually pay off a few years of purgatory time by paying for these indulgences and somebody, some priests would say a prayer for you and they'd be forgiven. Well at Luther's time, they were building St. Peter's in Rome, and there was a fella on the street selling a special indulgence. And his saying was, "As the coin in my cup does ring the soul of your loved one from purgatory does spring." And just infuriated Luther because it was, this is nowhere in scripture. So anyway, he begins to write and he begins to write what he is seeing in the Bible. And he is brought to trial, in a town called Worms, the trial was called a diet, And so it's called the Diet of Worms. And if that doesn't sound tasty to you, believe me, it wasn't tasty for Luther either. He gets there, basically all of his writings are put in front of him and he's basically given the choice. Did you write this? Yes. Will you recant it or basically die? Well, let me think about it. No. So he comes back the next day. They let him think about it overnight. "This is, you know, I've written about different things here. There are different topics, but all of them do have this in common. I went to the scriptures. If I can be shown from the word of God where I am wrong, I will retract it, I will recant it. But if I cannot be shown by the word of God in clear reason where my error is, here I stand. So help me, God, I can do no other." And there was kind of a moment of silence in the room. "Here I stand on the word," and then they condemned him. Well as he was in a coach, traveling back home, you know, probably going to be arrested at some point, he's kidnapped. He's taken away to the Wartburg castle where he's held or in hiding for like a couple years while he translates the Bible in its entirety, into the language of his beloved German people. And this begins to happen all over Europe. Others like Calvin, Zwingli, and Wycliffe. They're getting the Bible into the language of the people, they're bringing the people back to what the scriptures actually teach. And the Roman church has a Counter-Reformation, the council of Trent where all of these things, none of it had actually been hardened as this is what we believe. Then it actually became the teaching of the Roman church, and so that is the difference. Protestant churches have rejected these extra biblical teachings, the Roman church affirmed all of them. And it was just kind of a very, both sides, no room in the middle type of thing. But you know, here's something I think is really beautiful about the reformation. And there were five watchwords of the reformation, of course the educated language was Latin so they're all in Latin. But I'll tell you what they are, I think they're a good guide for us still today. They are simply this: Sola Scriptura (Scripture alone), Sola Christus (Christ alone the savior), Sola Gratia (By grace alone He saves us), Sola Fide (Through faith alone), Soli Deo Gloria (To God alone, be the glory). I think that's a pretty good foundation for the Christian life. As we find in scripture, "By grace we are saved through faith in Christ alone all praise and glory to God."

Ben Poole
Yeah, amen to that. These are amazing examples of living by faith. According to scripture, no matter what comes.

Gary Schick
Luther expected to die any day.

Ben Poole
And there are Bible translators who were killed for translating the scriptures in some of the most horrible ways. And they stood facing their earthly demise, knowing they did what was right. Thank God we're not in that situation. We have Bibles everywhere. You can get them at your fingertips on your phone, computers, books. I mean, even hotels, some still have Bibles in every room. I mean, so it's actively available wherever we are, essentially, whenever we want it. Part of, because of what some guys like Luther did, they stood up deciding, "I'm going to go back to the scriptures." And I think that is such an amazing example for the church today, as we look at the world and we see sin is not slowing down. If anything, it's ramping up and here in America, especially it's more and more praised. And Christianity is sort of being shoved to the back burner, and we're seeing this take place. And I think this just stands for us as encouragement as Christians, that no matter what we face personally, or as big C church, as the church stands in the world, it's encouraging to me to know that I'm not doing this alone. That we have got the cloud of witnesses watching the church live in this world. And it's an example set for us that things may be hard, things may be getting worse it feels like. But God's word still stands true that no matter what we face, we can always stand on God's word. And know that even if that affects our physical life here, even our employment or our families, we can stand before God knowing we've done what was right. And we have examples that have gone before us that say, "You can do this." And this is what God desires for his church, is not to just take the word of someone else, but God has given us his word so that we can each read it. That it's not hidden from us, it's not someone trying to take power away from us, but that God has opened up this doorway for us. And he used men like Martin Luther, Calvin, Zwingli, Tyndale, and Wycliffe. I mean, all of these people paid a lot of sacrifice so that we can have the word of God. And so I think my encouragement is stand up, stand strong for scripture and don't back down and dig into it because we are so blessed and the message isn't just for us. The message is for us to take to the world, so that we can be the messengers of the greatest message ever told.

Gary Schick
Amen. And you know, one of the principles of the reformation was, reformed and ever forming. In other words, reform back to scripture and always coming back to it. Because we have that within us, that is always wandering. And coming back to our anchor point in God's word is so important.

Ben Poole
It's a direction for our life, it lights the path before us. Well, this was a great topic. So as you know, we celebrate Halloween, but it's also known as reformation day because over 500 years ago when Martin Luther stood up for what he believed was right. And the world has changed ever since because of that. So we're thankful for that.

What's New at the Cross Reference Library? When the Past Brought us to the Present

Run Baby Run -  Nicky Cruz’s heart had turned to stone when he was only three. His mother nicknamed him the “Son of Satan,” and he was severely abused, both physically and mentally. After moving from Puerto Rico to New York, Nicky became the leader of a notorious street gang--the Mau Maus. He turned into a violent street criminal before he was eighteen. David Wilkerson, a skinny preacher from Pennsylvania, reached out to him with relentless love. He said, “Nicky, Jesus loves you,” and this simple message opened the door to a new life for Nicky Cruz. Run Baby Run, now a classic, tells his exciting story with gripping openness. 

Present over Perfect - Written in Shauna’s warm and vulnerable style, this collection of essays focuses on the most important transformation in her life, and maybe yours too: leaving behind busyness and frantic living and rediscovering the person you were made to be. Present Over Perfect is a hand reaching out, pulling you free from the constant pressure to perform faster, push harder, and produce more, all while maintaining an exhausting image of perfection. Stop. Rest. Play. Create. Connect. Cultivate silence. And in that silence, you’ll discover the voice of love you’ve been aching to hear. Shauna offers an honest account of what led her to begin this journey, and a compelling vision for an entirely new way to live: soaked in grace, rest, silence, simplicity, prayer, and connection with the people that matter most to us. 

Hearts Made Whole - After her father’s death, Caroline Taylor has grown confident running the Windmill Point Lighthouse. But in 1865 Michigan, women aren’t supposed to have such roles, so it’s only a matter of time before the lighthouse inspector appoints a new keeper--even though Caroline has nowhere else to go and no other job available to her. Ryan Chambers is a Civil War veteran still haunted by the horrors of battle. He’s secured the position of lighthouse keeper mostly for the isolation--the chance to hide from his past is appealing. He’s not expecting the current keeper to be a feisty and beautiful woman who’s angry with him for taking her job and for his inability to properly run the light. When his failings endanger others, he and Caroline realize he’s in no shape to run the lighthouse, but he’s unwilling to let anyone close enough to help. Caroline feels drawn to this wounded soul, but with both of them relying on that single position, can they look past their loss to a future filled with hope...and possibly love?

What is your story? How did you get from here to there? I was asked to share my testimony for the first time this summer, and I was completely stumped. As I was listening to everyone else share theirs, I thought to myself, “Dang, my testimony is pretty lame. Why wasn’t my life harder?” I look back on that now and realize that I was looking at that all wrong. Our testimonies aren’t just about the hard times in our lives. We tell our testimonies so that we can tell others how God changed our lives. And that is exactly what these three books are about this week. All of these authors and characters seem to be letting go, embracing, and even learning from their past. In Run, Baby, Run Nicky Cruz decides to embrace his terrible past in this unforgettable autobiography. Nicky truly takes us through the remarkable transition from gruesome gang fighter to fearless believer. Next we have Present Over Perfect, which encourages us to slow down long enough to appreciate the past and the present. The last book that I read through was Hearts Made Whole by Jody Hedlund. We hadn’t gotten any new books in a while and so I was pretty curious to see what this one was about. In the subject of dealing with our past, this book contains two characters who have trouble letting go of their past. As Ryan is trying to deal with traumatic events of the war, Caroline has to give in to the fact that her father is gone and she has to do whatever it takes to fill his shoes and raise her younger siblings on her own. Through these books, we are reminded that God never forgets about us. He has a plan for each and every one of us. So come on down to the Cross Reference Library and check out these great books. 

What Is The Deconstruction Movement? - Ask the Pastor

You can listen to Ask The Pastor every weekday at 9:00am MST on 97.1FM Hope Radio KCMI! You can also listen and subscribe to Ask The Pastor in your favorite podcast feed. Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Stitcher, Amazon Music and most other podcast services.

This edition of Ask the Pastor features Pastors Ben Poole and Gary Schick.

Ben Poole
So our question morning is on a new topic I've never really heard of. So I've been doing some reading and some digging into this, and I'm excited to talk about it. So here it is, "Can you talk about the deconstruction movement? Where are its origins? What are the premises of its teaching? What are the dangers? What is the appeal and how should we view it?" So a lot of questions in there, but the kind of main point is, what is this deconstruction movement? How is that affecting the church? Things like that. So, Gary, why don't you open this up?

Gary Schick
Well, and do you want to go a little bit into the roots of it first? I mean, I got some scripture stuff I want to talk about.

Ben Poole
I didn't have much on the history, just more kind of the now culture of it.

Gary Schick
From what I could gather, and it's new to me too, is that basically it kind of comes along the concept of taking your faith, examining it, kind of breaking it down and looking things over and saying, is this what I believe? And then going forward. And the way from what I read, I could see something, a positive direction to take with this, and I could see a negative direction. You know, it kind of made me think of Socrates' old quote, "The unexamined life is not worth living." And so maybe the faith premise would be the unexamined faith. Is it worth having or holding onto? And I think that there is biblical grounds for examining our faith. 1Thessalonians 5:21 says, "But test everything, hold fast to what is good." Elsewhere in scripture, we see, "Test the spirits, for not every spirit is of God." And I think in our own lives, we are constantly doing this as we grow. We're taking what we've learned, Paul tells Timothy, "Remember what you've learned from your youth, hold on to that," but we're also digging deeper, re-examining our lives. I think the question for me really is, what is the standard we are testing our faith against? Is it scripture? Is it Jesus? Or is it me and what appeals to me? You know, we do read in Matthew 24:10-13, Jesus said, "And then many will fall away and betray one another and hate one another and many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. And because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold, but the one who endures to the end will be saved." 2 Timothy 4, "Now the spirit expressly says that in later times, some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons through the insincerity of liars whose consciences are seared." 2 Timothy 4:3, "For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but have itching ears. They will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions." Am I going after what appeals to me and slowly rejecting my faith, as I believe some in this deconstructionist movement have done? Or am I deconstructing the old self and putting on more and more of Jesus? Jesus said in John 17:17, "Sanctify them in the truth, your word is truth." So there is the bottom line for me. What is your truth standard? If your truth standard is your own judgment, your definition of truth is going to shift and drift over time. And you may be among those departing the faith. If it is God's word, you will be anchored firm, and you will be slowly, piece by piece building your house more and more carefully, I hope, on Jesus. I think there is a deconstructionist heartbeat to the gospel that says, "Putting aside the old self, putting on the new. Taking off the old, putting on Jesus; dying to self, living to Christ." And that's what you mean by deconstructionism, let's go for it 100%. If it's, "Well, I don't know if this appeals to me, you know, really, I don't think this part of Jesus' teaching is culturally relevant today." Then I'm sorry, we part ways there. I'm not going down, I'm going with Jesus. Jesus the same yesterday, today, and forever. God in the flesh, the image of the father, that's who I want to follow, regardless of what new wind of teaching is blowing today and blowing smoke tomorrow.

Ben Poole
Yeah. So this is something that I think, the terminology I've never heard of, but the more I read into it, I've seen it. I think it's so clear. One person I was reading from, from an atheistic perspective was talking about, you know, the sixties and seventies when there was kind of this movement out of the church. And, "We should be pushing that and we should become more like Europe and we should just exclude religion altogether and just focus on humanism essentially." And so what's crazy to me is, this is actually a larger issue than I think I ever realized. I'm gonna read just a little bit from one author, from Relevant Magazine, which is a Christian magazine. But I just want to read something he wrote. He says, "As a life coach working with deconstructing Christians, most of the people I've seen walk away from the faith did so, not because of their struggles with God, but because Christian churches have become too wrapped up in the very things Jesus spoke against with the Pharisees. Who could really blame a person for walking away from a religion when it has been so intertwined with systems of greed, oppression, manipulation, and control? I get it, it often seems all of Christiandom has forgotten the greatest commandment, love God with all your heart, with all your soul and with all your mind and love your neighbor as yourself. People are not deconstructing because they want to hear theology that tickles their ears. They're deconstructing because most churches have forgotten the core principles of Jesus's ministry. They've forgotten their first love." And I understand that, to a point. I get that we can sometimes see problems in churches.

Gary Schick
Because there are people there that are sinners that need to be saved by grace.

Ben Poole
A hundred percent. And he talked about some bands that have left the Christian faith, church leaders that have left the Christian faith, and kind of place them under this deconstructing movement. They have examined what they believe, then they examine what the church is doing or teaches, and they say, "You know what, this isn't jiving, and so I'm out." And I know that it's probably a lot deeper and probably, you can't put a blanket statement like that over all of them. Everybody has their reasons for the decisions they make. But I think my struggle here, is that I agree completely with what you said. That there is a call for deconstructing, in the right way. What happens is, people don't want to do it the right way. They want to look at the culture and they want to look at themselves and say, "I need it to fit me, and not me fit what God has called me to be." And I think that there's a healthy way to do this, if our goal is to become more Christ-like. So the struggle is, why I'm part of a church that doesn't do this. So my problem here that I would wrestle with is, then why would you leave the thing, you know that needs help?

Gary Schick
Well, yeah, and again, there's nothing new here. Unfortunately, it's true, a lot of people, churches full of hypocrites. And how well do you live up to the full teaching of Jesus? I mean, the sermon on the Mount, it's exactly who we should be, and we all fall incredibly far short. So the easiest person for me to forgive is me. You know, I can pass over just about anything I've done. But if you were to say, or think the things about me that I may have thought about you and forgive, well, I might not forgive you for that. It's always hard to forgive somebody else. It's always easy to forgive ourselves. And so, you know, does the church need constantly to be reformed to scripture? In fact, one of the principles of the reformation was reformed and every forming, and I'm not talking about reformed theology here. I'm talking about the principle of reforming back to God's word. The whole concept in the days of the reformation was that the church has drifted away from the clear teachings of the gospel and the word. I know some listeners are gonna agree and some are going to disagree. But I think the principle really should be good for all of us that we want to get ever closer to Jesus and closer to his word. And so, does the church get comfortable as a group with certain sins and certain blind spots? Absolutely. Representative of many individuals with those, including ourselves. And so I think we need to be constantly breaking out of our sin and breaking into more of Jesus. And it's a challenge for the church as well, but that brings revival. When we humble ourselves before God and make him and his word our standard and not ourselves.

Ben Poole
So another direction that I kind of want to go for just the last few minutes we have here. When I was reading from the perspective of someone who is not a Christian, and I said, atheist. I don't know if they're atheist or not, I don't know exactly, but definitely from a non biblical worldview. A lot of the things that came up and says, "Well, examine the facts because so much can't be proven, so much taken on faith and all these things." And so people will use that as almost their own proof text of, "If I can't see it, touch it, smell it, you know, whatever, it's not real enough for me. That the lack of evidence proves to me that there's holes in this belief system. Therefore I'm not going to be part of it." And I wanted to, because I don't have in my head and my knowledge, all this beautiful information that is out there for proof towards the truth of the gospel message, the truth of scripture. One of them is one of my favorite books. I think every Christian should have in their libraries, The Case for Christ by Lee Strobel. A phenomenal story of a man, you probably know this, there's even a movie about it, who was an atheist. His wife became a Christian, and then he decided, "I'm going to prove her wrong," essentially, and went out and ended up finding Jesus and the truth of the gospel. Another one is by Josh McDowell, again, grew up an atheist. Went out to absolutely prove the Bible was false and came to the point where he said, "There's so much evidence pointing towards the truth, it's undeniable." And he wrote, he's written lots of books, but one of them is Evidence That Demands a Verdict.

Gary Schick
Followed by more of Demands a Verdict, and More Than a Carpenter. And he's written so many.

Ben Poole
Basically what I'm saying is, if there's issues you're struggling with, there are resources, extra biblical resources out there. Never place those above scripture, scriptures above all, but use these other resources. Like guys like Josh McDowell or Lee Strobel that have invested unbelievable amounts of time in their life who began out as atheists, who found the proof.

Gary Schick
And don't forget C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity. He was another one of those guys, he didn't believe.

Ben Poole
I quote C.S Lewis almost every sermon he is so, just gold. There's so many resources for you, if you're truly seeking the truth. Because I think that's the point is, you can be critical if you want, but I think if you would choose in your heart to seek the truth.

Gary Schick
But, and I think, and this goes beyond our talk today, but I think they've called it like, post enlightenment. Just the idea that out there, it's out there for some, that basically you can't know anything. I mean, even things that we accept as scientific fact, so to speak. And of course we do, we live in a culture and in a time when everything is questioned. And it really comes down to, "Well, what's true for me versus what's true for you." But there again, if you are in the standard of truth, there is no basis for truth. Truth has to be something that's out there independent of us. And if there is a God in the universe who created all, he ultimately is that standard of truth. If there are true laws of nature, there are things he put in place. So you can come to a knowledge of the truth, if you're really desiring that. On the other hand, if you're just looking for a life of, what pleases me, well, I got nothing to say. Because you're just going to kind of keep recreating the universe around yourself. And even if you wanted a perfect church, there was a guy who founded it and it's a church at zero, cause he couldn't attend there either. But Jesus died to save sinners, among which we include ourselves, because people who are following him, but he's our standard.

What's New at Cross Reference Library? - Life’s Tough, But it Could Always be Worse

Forgotten Girls - All over the world, women and girls face starvation, displacement, illiteracy, sexual exploitation and abuse. In fact, statistics show that the world’s most oppressed are overwhelmingly female. Moved by their plight, Kay Marshall Strom and Michele Rickett took a trip across continents to partner with ministries working to help females and to interview girls in some of the most difficult places in the world. These pages hold those girls’ stories: stories of deep pain and suffering, inspiring courage, and incredible hope. They are the stories of girls who have discovered their value in God’s eyes, in the midst of cultures that have rejected them. They are stories of rescue and redemption by God working through compassionate people--people like you. These pages might hold pieces of your story as well, as the authors invite you to pray and speak on behalf of the millions of women and girls who still need to know how much they’re worth. The authors provide specific, practical action steps and prayer points that allow you to get involved as God leads.  

Un-Common - Author Carey Scott invites you to journey alongside her as she introduces you to women from the Word who chose to live uncommon lives even in the toughest circumstances. From stepping into scandalous situations to breaking cultural norms to risking the departure of a comfortable life, you will discover hope and motivation to live God’s way in a world that screams, “Tuck your faith away! Just be normal like everyone else!” Now more than ever, it’s time to step into something new...something life-changing and life giving. God is asking you to shine His light into a world that needs to know there is a better way to live. And  when you say yes to becoming uncommon, it's a radical act of obedience to the One who created you to be extraordinary. With authenticity, vulnerability, humor, and refreshing boldness, Uncommon will empower you to rise up...to reject the common...to embrace your calling...and to live in a way that points others to God. Buckle up, friend. It’s time to be uncommon.

Hope When Your Heart is Breaking - You’ve lost someone you love. Or you’re on the brink of losing your marriage...your dreams...your health. Or perhaps the trauma of your past pursues you into the present. Your life is going to change. Which way it goes won’t be decided by your loss but by the choices you make. At the crossroads of grief, one road will lead to hope and healing. The other, to more hurt. Hope When Your Heart is Breaking is an honest look at both roads, and how your greatest loss can lead to your greatest gain. Author Ron Hutchcraft writes from the deep well of his own devastating loss and grief, pointing you to practical steps that lead to peace and wholeness. This book is a pathway to hope--a roadmap through the pain of grief and loss. Discover new strength through a new closeness to others and to God. Make the decisions that lead to comfort, growth, and life.

Growing up, I was always complaining, like most kids do, about how hard my life apparently was. Yet my dad would always reply, “Well, at least you don’t live in a tin hut in Uganda, eating the latest grab from the local dumpster.” After a while it became a little joke between the two of us. But as I began to read Forgotten Girls, I started to realize how truly blessed I am. The stories that Kay Marshall Strom and Michele Rickett heard while on their journey were just devastating. The first story they tell is about a little Indonesian girl named Beti. She was an orphan girl who was brutally beaten and abused by the local witch doctor who took her in. The Christian seminary that was in the village at the time heard about her mistreatment and were able to rescue her. Each of the stories that were found by these two authors are all examples of how much God loves us. Even when hope seems so far away and it looks like God has just forgotten about us, the perfect miracle happens and we realize that God never left us in the first place. Another part of life that always seems like the “end of world” is being Un-Common. I know that I can personally say that being myself in public constantly feels like a bad idea. But author Carey Scott reassures her readers through personal experience and biblical examples, that it is ok to be exactly who God made you to be. The final book I read through was Hope When Your Heart Is Breaking. This book was written by a guy who had gone through some devastating losses over the past few years. He lost his wife unexpectedly and his father passed away during an open heart surgery. But Ron Hutchcraft reminds us that in those circumstances, there is still hope. In chapter two, he tells a story about his last moments with his dad. When his dad was preparing for his open heart surgery, he asked Ron to read the Twenty-third Psalm. So he read verses one through three, but once he stopped, his father continued from memory with verses four through six. Ron could tell that his dad was at peace in that moment feeling the hope in those verses. And not too long after, as Ron put it, “Biblically, he relocated to “the house of the Lord forever.” So if life seems pretty insane right now and you need a little hope and encouragement, come on down to the Cross Reference Library and check out these very special page turners!

“Though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for you are with me. Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life, and I shall dwell in the house of the Lord forever.” (Psalm 23:4,6)