What Is The Deconstruction Movement? - Ask the Pastor

You can listen to Ask The Pastor every weekday at 9:00am MST on 97.1FM Hope Radio KCMI! You can also listen and subscribe to Ask The Pastor in your favorite podcast feed. Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Stitcher, Amazon Music and most other podcast services.

This edition of Ask the Pastor features Pastors Ben Poole and Gary Schick.

Ben Poole
So our question morning is on a new topic I've never really heard of. So I've been doing some reading and some digging into this, and I'm excited to talk about it. So here it is, "Can you talk about the deconstruction movement? Where are its origins? What are the premises of its teaching? What are the dangers? What is the appeal and how should we view it?" So a lot of questions in there, but the kind of main point is, what is this deconstruction movement? How is that affecting the church? Things like that. So, Gary, why don't you open this up?

Gary Schick
Well, and do you want to go a little bit into the roots of it first? I mean, I got some scripture stuff I want to talk about.

Ben Poole
I didn't have much on the history, just more kind of the now culture of it.

Gary Schick
From what I could gather, and it's new to me too, is that basically it kind of comes along the concept of taking your faith, examining it, kind of breaking it down and looking things over and saying, is this what I believe? And then going forward. And the way from what I read, I could see something, a positive direction to take with this, and I could see a negative direction. You know, it kind of made me think of Socrates' old quote, "The unexamined life is not worth living." And so maybe the faith premise would be the unexamined faith. Is it worth having or holding onto? And I think that there is biblical grounds for examining our faith. 1Thessalonians 5:21 says, "But test everything, hold fast to what is good." Elsewhere in scripture, we see, "Test the spirits, for not every spirit is of God." And I think in our own lives, we are constantly doing this as we grow. We're taking what we've learned, Paul tells Timothy, "Remember what you've learned from your youth, hold on to that," but we're also digging deeper, re-examining our lives. I think the question for me really is, what is the standard we are testing our faith against? Is it scripture? Is it Jesus? Or is it me and what appeals to me? You know, we do read in Matthew 24:10-13, Jesus said, "And then many will fall away and betray one another and hate one another and many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. And because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold, but the one who endures to the end will be saved." 2 Timothy 4, "Now the spirit expressly says that in later times, some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons through the insincerity of liars whose consciences are seared." 2 Timothy 4:3, "For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but have itching ears. They will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions." Am I going after what appeals to me and slowly rejecting my faith, as I believe some in this deconstructionist movement have done? Or am I deconstructing the old self and putting on more and more of Jesus? Jesus said in John 17:17, "Sanctify them in the truth, your word is truth." So there is the bottom line for me. What is your truth standard? If your truth standard is your own judgment, your definition of truth is going to shift and drift over time. And you may be among those departing the faith. If it is God's word, you will be anchored firm, and you will be slowly, piece by piece building your house more and more carefully, I hope, on Jesus. I think there is a deconstructionist heartbeat to the gospel that says, "Putting aside the old self, putting on the new. Taking off the old, putting on Jesus; dying to self, living to Christ." And that's what you mean by deconstructionism, let's go for it 100%. If it's, "Well, I don't know if this appeals to me, you know, really, I don't think this part of Jesus' teaching is culturally relevant today." Then I'm sorry, we part ways there. I'm not going down, I'm going with Jesus. Jesus the same yesterday, today, and forever. God in the flesh, the image of the father, that's who I want to follow, regardless of what new wind of teaching is blowing today and blowing smoke tomorrow.

Ben Poole
Yeah. So this is something that I think, the terminology I've never heard of, but the more I read into it, I've seen it. I think it's so clear. One person I was reading from, from an atheistic perspective was talking about, you know, the sixties and seventies when there was kind of this movement out of the church. And, "We should be pushing that and we should become more like Europe and we should just exclude religion altogether and just focus on humanism essentially." And so what's crazy to me is, this is actually a larger issue than I think I ever realized. I'm gonna read just a little bit from one author, from Relevant Magazine, which is a Christian magazine. But I just want to read something he wrote. He says, "As a life coach working with deconstructing Christians, most of the people I've seen walk away from the faith did so, not because of their struggles with God, but because Christian churches have become too wrapped up in the very things Jesus spoke against with the Pharisees. Who could really blame a person for walking away from a religion when it has been so intertwined with systems of greed, oppression, manipulation, and control? I get it, it often seems all of Christiandom has forgotten the greatest commandment, love God with all your heart, with all your soul and with all your mind and love your neighbor as yourself. People are not deconstructing because they want to hear theology that tickles their ears. They're deconstructing because most churches have forgotten the core principles of Jesus's ministry. They've forgotten their first love." And I understand that, to a point. I get that we can sometimes see problems in churches.

Gary Schick
Because there are people there that are sinners that need to be saved by grace.

Ben Poole
A hundred percent. And he talked about some bands that have left the Christian faith, church leaders that have left the Christian faith, and kind of place them under this deconstructing movement. They have examined what they believe, then they examine what the church is doing or teaches, and they say, "You know what, this isn't jiving, and so I'm out." And I know that it's probably a lot deeper and probably, you can't put a blanket statement like that over all of them. Everybody has their reasons for the decisions they make. But I think my struggle here, is that I agree completely with what you said. That there is a call for deconstructing, in the right way. What happens is, people don't want to do it the right way. They want to look at the culture and they want to look at themselves and say, "I need it to fit me, and not me fit what God has called me to be." And I think that there's a healthy way to do this, if our goal is to become more Christ-like. So the struggle is, why I'm part of a church that doesn't do this. So my problem here that I would wrestle with is, then why would you leave the thing, you know that needs help?

Gary Schick
Well, yeah, and again, there's nothing new here. Unfortunately, it's true, a lot of people, churches full of hypocrites. And how well do you live up to the full teaching of Jesus? I mean, the sermon on the Mount, it's exactly who we should be, and we all fall incredibly far short. So the easiest person for me to forgive is me. You know, I can pass over just about anything I've done. But if you were to say, or think the things about me that I may have thought about you and forgive, well, I might not forgive you for that. It's always hard to forgive somebody else. It's always easy to forgive ourselves. And so, you know, does the church need constantly to be reformed to scripture? In fact, one of the principles of the reformation was reformed and every forming, and I'm not talking about reformed theology here. I'm talking about the principle of reforming back to God's word. The whole concept in the days of the reformation was that the church has drifted away from the clear teachings of the gospel and the word. I know some listeners are gonna agree and some are going to disagree. But I think the principle really should be good for all of us that we want to get ever closer to Jesus and closer to his word. And so, does the church get comfortable as a group with certain sins and certain blind spots? Absolutely. Representative of many individuals with those, including ourselves. And so I think we need to be constantly breaking out of our sin and breaking into more of Jesus. And it's a challenge for the church as well, but that brings revival. When we humble ourselves before God and make him and his word our standard and not ourselves.

Ben Poole
So another direction that I kind of want to go for just the last few minutes we have here. When I was reading from the perspective of someone who is not a Christian, and I said, atheist. I don't know if they're atheist or not, I don't know exactly, but definitely from a non biblical worldview. A lot of the things that came up and says, "Well, examine the facts because so much can't be proven, so much taken on faith and all these things." And so people will use that as almost their own proof text of, "If I can't see it, touch it, smell it, you know, whatever, it's not real enough for me. That the lack of evidence proves to me that there's holes in this belief system. Therefore I'm not going to be part of it." And I wanted to, because I don't have in my head and my knowledge, all this beautiful information that is out there for proof towards the truth of the gospel message, the truth of scripture. One of them is one of my favorite books. I think every Christian should have in their libraries, The Case for Christ by Lee Strobel. A phenomenal story of a man, you probably know this, there's even a movie about it, who was an atheist. His wife became a Christian, and then he decided, "I'm going to prove her wrong," essentially, and went out and ended up finding Jesus and the truth of the gospel. Another one is by Josh McDowell, again, grew up an atheist. Went out to absolutely prove the Bible was false and came to the point where he said, "There's so much evidence pointing towards the truth, it's undeniable." And he wrote, he's written lots of books, but one of them is Evidence That Demands a Verdict.

Gary Schick
Followed by more of Demands a Verdict, and More Than a Carpenter. And he's written so many.

Ben Poole
Basically what I'm saying is, if there's issues you're struggling with, there are resources, extra biblical resources out there. Never place those above scripture, scriptures above all, but use these other resources. Like guys like Josh McDowell or Lee Strobel that have invested unbelievable amounts of time in their life who began out as atheists, who found the proof.

Gary Schick
And don't forget C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity. He was another one of those guys, he didn't believe.

Ben Poole
I quote C.S Lewis almost every sermon he is so, just gold. There's so many resources for you, if you're truly seeking the truth. Because I think that's the point is, you can be critical if you want, but I think if you would choose in your heart to seek the truth.

Gary Schick
But, and I think, and this goes beyond our talk today, but I think they've called it like, post enlightenment. Just the idea that out there, it's out there for some, that basically you can't know anything. I mean, even things that we accept as scientific fact, so to speak. And of course we do, we live in a culture and in a time when everything is questioned. And it really comes down to, "Well, what's true for me versus what's true for you." But there again, if you are in the standard of truth, there is no basis for truth. Truth has to be something that's out there independent of us. And if there is a God in the universe who created all, he ultimately is that standard of truth. If there are true laws of nature, there are things he put in place. So you can come to a knowledge of the truth, if you're really desiring that. On the other hand, if you're just looking for a life of, what pleases me, well, I got nothing to say. Because you're just going to kind of keep recreating the universe around yourself. And even if you wanted a perfect church, there was a guy who founded it and it's a church at zero, cause he couldn't attend there either. But Jesus died to save sinners, among which we include ourselves, because people who are following him, but he's our standard.

What's New at Cross Reference Library? - Life’s Tough, But it Could Always be Worse

Forgotten Girls - All over the world, women and girls face starvation, displacement, illiteracy, sexual exploitation and abuse. In fact, statistics show that the world’s most oppressed are overwhelmingly female. Moved by their plight, Kay Marshall Strom and Michele Rickett took a trip across continents to partner with ministries working to help females and to interview girls in some of the most difficult places in the world. These pages hold those girls’ stories: stories of deep pain and suffering, inspiring courage, and incredible hope. They are the stories of girls who have discovered their value in God’s eyes, in the midst of cultures that have rejected them. They are stories of rescue and redemption by God working through compassionate people--people like you. These pages might hold pieces of your story as well, as the authors invite you to pray and speak on behalf of the millions of women and girls who still need to know how much they’re worth. The authors provide specific, practical action steps and prayer points that allow you to get involved as God leads.  

Un-Common - Author Carey Scott invites you to journey alongside her as she introduces you to women from the Word who chose to live uncommon lives even in the toughest circumstances. From stepping into scandalous situations to breaking cultural norms to risking the departure of a comfortable life, you will discover hope and motivation to live God’s way in a world that screams, “Tuck your faith away! Just be normal like everyone else!” Now more than ever, it’s time to step into something new...something life-changing and life giving. God is asking you to shine His light into a world that needs to know there is a better way to live. And  when you say yes to becoming uncommon, it's a radical act of obedience to the One who created you to be extraordinary. With authenticity, vulnerability, humor, and refreshing boldness, Uncommon will empower you to rise up...to reject the common...to embrace your calling...and to live in a way that points others to God. Buckle up, friend. It’s time to be uncommon.

Hope When Your Heart is Breaking - You’ve lost someone you love. Or you’re on the brink of losing your marriage...your dreams...your health. Or perhaps the trauma of your past pursues you into the present. Your life is going to change. Which way it goes won’t be decided by your loss but by the choices you make. At the crossroads of grief, one road will lead to hope and healing. The other, to more hurt. Hope When Your Heart is Breaking is an honest look at both roads, and how your greatest loss can lead to your greatest gain. Author Ron Hutchcraft writes from the deep well of his own devastating loss and grief, pointing you to practical steps that lead to peace and wholeness. This book is a pathway to hope--a roadmap through the pain of grief and loss. Discover new strength through a new closeness to others and to God. Make the decisions that lead to comfort, growth, and life.

Growing up, I was always complaining, like most kids do, about how hard my life apparently was. Yet my dad would always reply, “Well, at least you don’t live in a tin hut in Uganda, eating the latest grab from the local dumpster.” After a while it became a little joke between the two of us. But as I began to read Forgotten Girls, I started to realize how truly blessed I am. The stories that Kay Marshall Strom and Michele Rickett heard while on their journey were just devastating. The first story they tell is about a little Indonesian girl named Beti. She was an orphan girl who was brutally beaten and abused by the local witch doctor who took her in. The Christian seminary that was in the village at the time heard about her mistreatment and were able to rescue her. Each of the stories that were found by these two authors are all examples of how much God loves us. Even when hope seems so far away and it looks like God has just forgotten about us, the perfect miracle happens and we realize that God never left us in the first place. Another part of life that always seems like the “end of world” is being Un-Common. I know that I can personally say that being myself in public constantly feels like a bad idea. But author Carey Scott reassures her readers through personal experience and biblical examples, that it is ok to be exactly who God made you to be. The final book I read through was Hope When Your Heart Is Breaking. This book was written by a guy who had gone through some devastating losses over the past few years. He lost his wife unexpectedly and his father passed away during an open heart surgery. But Ron Hutchcraft reminds us that in those circumstances, there is still hope. In chapter two, he tells a story about his last moments with his dad. When his dad was preparing for his open heart surgery, he asked Ron to read the Twenty-third Psalm. So he read verses one through three, but once he stopped, his father continued from memory with verses four through six. Ron could tell that his dad was at peace in that moment feeling the hope in those verses. And not too long after, as Ron put it, “Biblically, he relocated to “the house of the Lord forever.” So if life seems pretty insane right now and you need a little hope and encouragement, come on down to the Cross Reference Library and check out these very special page turners!

“Though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for you are with me. Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life, and I shall dwell in the house of the Lord forever.” (Psalm 23:4,6)

Why Are So Many Marriages In The Church Failing? - Ask the Pastor

You can listen to Ask The Pastor every weekday at 9:00am MST on 97.1FM Hope Radio KCMI! You can also listen and subscribe to Ask The Pastor in your favorite podcast feed. Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Stitcher, Amazon Music and most other podcast services.

This edition of Ask the Pastor features Pastors Ben Poole and Gary Schick.

Ben Poole
Okay, our question is, "I'm greatly disturbed by what seems like a sudden rash of marriages in the church that are crumbling. What are we doing wrong? And is this a sign of the times of the end?" So, I think we all can see culture affecting marriages and yeah we definitely see this even in the church, which is really sad, especially. And I know that it's probably detrimental all over the world. But it seems like we can see it pretty clearly right now. Especially with social media and things that we see, even from what we've talked about in the past. Those high profile or those popular pastors and culture and even their marriage is crumbling. So Gary, what are your thoughts on this?

Gary Schick
Well, it's a big topic, and it's kind of a two-fold topic. It's marriage, it's marriage in the church, and it's a question about the end times. It's actually three things there, okay? So, and just regarding marriage, I mean my parents are divorced. I think the divorce is probably, and just somewhere, all of us are related to somebody and maybe it happened to you. And so I guess anytime we talk about this, I want to be sensitive because I know that every situation is different. That many people who enter with the best of intentions find themselves in a broken marriage. It's always a risk when you walk down the aisle with somebody because you, no matter how well you know them, you don't know them until you've said I do. And so a lot of prayer and thought should go into that. But that said, I just want to mention a couple of things. One, I think we need to be mindful of our own discipleship. It's true. And you know, I didn't look it up in preparation for today, but I've heard it over and over again. That the level of divorce in the church is not only equal to, but sometimes higher than that in the world. I wonder if that comes from an expectation, people have, Christians have, "I'm marrying another Christian, and so it's going to be like this." And so maybe there's just a little problem in our own theology. We are sinners saved by faith. And one of the things I like to impress on couples is, "Now just know that I think you've made a good choice here. You're both wonderful people, but you are marrying a sinner. And you won't really know the degree of your own sin I don't think, until you get married." I know for me, I didn't know how selfish I was, when I lived on my own till I was 35, but living side by side with another person. And it's not because she was trying to push it in my face, it just became evident over and over again. How after living really 10 years almost on my own out of college, I was just living for myself in so many ways. Even as a pastor, my world revolved so much around me, and now I had to learn how to, and I'm still learning how to make my life more about someone else. And that's where I think the beautiful model that Jesus gives us about marriage, in Ephesians 5, really comes into play. He talks about the wife's role, is the church relating to him. And the husband's role is Jesus relating to his bride, the church. And those are standards none of us can live up to fully. But they are standards we need to embrace. And so maybe we have this thought that we're just going to enter marriage and the good things we've had in our dating life are just, it's going to be like that. Marriage, marriage changes everything. I kind of divide my own life into two phases. There was pre my wife, Bridget, and there is post, after her. And it's, I love it. I wouldn't go back for anything, but it's a whole different life. You truly have to lay down and let go of all the expectations you had and just accept the fact that God has put you out on a whole new adventure. And it's going to take a lot of trust in him and a lot of working together. Lots of great marriage advice out there, but maybe the best is, a good marriage is made up of two strong forgivers. You know, and I know I've mentioned other things in the past. It maybe helped some folks out there. A pastor friend of mine in town, pastor Jake Roberts, gave me some advice that I've passed onto many couples. He says, "You know, the husband has four jobs biblically, and the woman has two. Her jobs are to support and encourage him and to show appreciation to him. And really to be alongside co-worker. His job is to protect, to provide, to nourish, to cherish her. And wives, you may be saying, "My husband's not doing that for me." Do your part, and it may start to come from him. Husbands, you may say, "My wife's not doing that for me." Do your part, and the right thing might come from her. God's not asking you to fix your spouse, He's asking you to follow him. And so it's about discipleship, it's following Jesus. But regarding the last days, sure, there will be a great falling away. And Paul talks to Timothy about, in the last days will come times of difficulty and the people, I won't read the whole passage, but it's summed up really in verse two, for people will be lovers of self. And so does that play in a marriage? Of course it does.

Ben Poole
This is such a huge topic. And you hit on so many great points. I would say that, man I have so much to say, there so much. I guess I'd start a couple of resources that I know my wife and I have worked through outside of scripture alone. One of them is the Five Love Languages, excellent book by Gary Chapman. And the other one that we did our pre-marriage counseling through was Love and Respect by Dr. Emerson. Eggerichs, fantastic. Both of these come directly out of scripture. Pulled from scripture, they're Christian authors and teachers highly recommend those. Talking to my wife last night about this question and, kind of, you know, gathering thoughts on this. And she really kind of pointed out just a real clarity. She said, "It's really actually quite simple. It's about selfishness." And that's really kind of what you were just talking about was, we, especially when you're newly married, like you talked about. You don't realize you are in love with this person, but you're also kind of in love with yourself. And then you have this wrestling of, I'm selfish and maybe not hurtful selfish, but you're not trying to hurt your spouse at all. You're trying to live up to certain expectations, but at the same time you're still dealing with, I was on my own, I had my own life. I had my own schedule and now I'm kind of at the hands of someone else, someone else's schedule, and someone else's life. And it's a real learning curve to adjust to not just living with someone, but being a husband or wife of someone. You are responsible for and responsible to someone else, and it's huge. And I think a lot of people in our culture, especially, you know, a lot of kids look at celebrities as examples, which they probably shouldn't do that. But I mean, it's sort of like bragging rights on, well I was with this person, and then we got divorce. And I went with this person, we got divorced, and it's sort of like, we're keeping a record of this. And so our culture is not helping that longevity of marriage. Just recently I got to help celebrate and perform a service, renewing vows for a couple in our church. Celebrating 50 years of marriage, and talk about how rare that is. You know, we kind of think of our grandparents maybe as they've held on. But we kind of look at it now like, I don't know how you can do that. And I think it goes back, and we talked about this once before, it's keeping God at the center. You know, we talk about marriage between husband and wife, but it's more than that. It is between us and God. It is a covenant relationship we're making with someone else and with God, and not to be taken lightly. And I really appreciate what you brought out in Ephesians talking about marriage. A lot of times in our culture, especially, you know, Paul talks about the wife needs to submit to the husband and respect him. And that's kind of where a lot of people stop and say, "You know what? I don't like that, I'm not going to keep reading." And, but if we do keep reading what he brings about from the husband's perspective, it's deeper and scarier at times.

Gary Schick
Lay down your life for her.

Ben Poole
Yeah. He says, "You are to treat her like Christ loves the church." Well, how did Christ love the church? He gave his life for her. That puts it back on us as men and husbands, to live in such a way that I can love my wife in the good and the bad, in sickness and in health. And it's not that we can't, because we're called to so therefore we can. Love her and honor her in the exact same way that Christ does the church where he gives himself up for her. And that's our honor, I believe as husbands to live in such a way. And if we do that, there's no perfect marriage. There's no perfect relationship. You know, maybe you're listening and you're not married yet. And you have a lot of these, grand beautiful visions of what it's gonna look like. And some of those are true and they will, and there's going to be some hard days. There going to be some seasons where there's a lot of struggle and issues and tension in your marriage, especially when kids come around. And how do we raise them? How do we discipline them? What do we do? But even in that, we are given an opportunity to love and respect one another. And our kids will see that, the world will see that. But I just want to encourage you don't give up, don't ever give up. A lot of people think the grass is greener on the other side and something else looks beautiful. And I've always said, the grass may be greener, but it might be planted over the sewer tank too. You know what I mean? So invest in the people you've committed to and invest in your spouse. You know, my wife and I talk about, we have three and one on the way, kids. And I hear a lot of people talk about how their kids are the most important people in their lives. And I tell my kids, "I do love you, but you are not the most important person in my life, my wife is." And if we can live the way God has called us to live and have our marriages the way God has called our marriages to be everything works out. Everything comes into place just the way they should. So I just want to encourage you guys, I mean, look for resources, find help, talk to people, because everybody's struggled in one way or another.

Gary Schick
We've been down the road.

Ben Poole
Yeah. And so we want to be here as pastors, but also as two husbands, you know. That know that you can talk to our wives too. And ask questions and find out what we do or what worked and what didn't work. I'm pretty open about my struggles and things that I struggle with. So, but don't feel like you have to go this alone and don't think that divorce is your only option. Yeah, that's, that's pretty much what I got. I mean, there's so much more we could talk about, but we just want to be encouraging to you to know that God loves you. God loves marriage and designed it as something beautiful for us to enjoy and to be in the midst of the pleasure of marriage, even in the struggles.

Gary Schick
Wouldn't trade it.

What's New at Cross Reference Library? - "A Whole New World"

With Fresh Eyes - Too often we take for granted what we see everyday. We long for the extraordinary when we set aside time with God in a quiet room. But we don’t think to look for his hand in a traffic jam or while walking the dog. For Karen Wingate, sight itself is something extraordinary--and what our eyes can reveal is even more astounding. Karen lived most of her life with severely limited sight due to a genetic defect. But through the chance outcome of a surgery in her mid-fifties, she doubled her visual acuity. As she eagerly explored a more detailed world for the first time, she also began to see God in every new discovery--from the glory of sunsets to the prosaic numbers of a bathroom scale. You, too, can awaken to the wonder of what you observe--great and small--and how God is working in everyday moments. In each of her sixty meditations, Karen’s humor and whimsy draw a connection between physical sight and spiritual understanding that will leave you with a renewed delight in what is good and beautiful.

Every Knee Shall Bow - For the first time in history, the Roman emperor supports the church. But the fledgling faith’s future still hangs in the balance. Flavia, a Roman senator’s daughter, is sent from her convent by Bishop Sylvester to seek Emperor Constantine’s permission to determine the canon of scripture and build great churches where pagan temples once stood. But God’s enemies are on the move, and the path to the bishop’s goals is fraught with peril. Flavia’s beloved protector, Germanic barbarian Brandulf Rex, has fought his way out of exile. He and Flavia will cross the empire by land and sea on this epic quest to free the Roman people from the tyranny of the ancient gods. Will the early Christians receive the Word of God? Will beautiful churches rise in Rome where pagan temples once stood? Or will the world's greatest empire keep refusing to bow the knee to its true and rightful Lord?

Rest Girl - Are you bone-tired, girl? Does your soul feel fatigued? Jami Amerine gets it. She was there. Overcommitted, under-slept, stretched thin, continually trying yet constantly falling short as a woman, a mother, and a Christian. But there’s more to life than this:

• More Rest

• More to taste and see

• More tenderness, mercy, and guidance

• More abundance, peace, and joy

• More everything

In a climate steeped in stress and worries, this book offers a priceless opportunity to experience the refreshing freedom of true rest so you never slip into limiting belief or doubt again. Author Jami Amerine (Well, Girl) will guide you on a moving, humorous, engaging, and life-altering journey to experience the unconditional love of the Father as the girl He adores (that’s you!) and an opportunity to change your world! 

One of my most favorite Disney songs is “A Whole New World” from Aladdin. When I was reading these books this week, the subjects that the authors went over reminded me of that song. In, With Fresh Eyes, it was literally a “Whole New World” for Karen Wingate, because she had never been able to “see” it before. Just like how it is for new believers in Christ. Before you decide to trust in Jesus, you are blind to how beautiful the world truly is when God is known by you. Every Knee Shall Bow contains a whole other world entirely, bringing us into the Roman Empire during the rise of the Christian church. That is exactly what I love about historical fiction books. How an author can show us a perspective of a story that thousands of people have heard hundreds of times. The last book that I looked at was Rest Girl by Jami Amerine. Life is crazy, unpredictable, exhausting, and according to Jami just a little bit of rest is exactly what you need to say good-bye to the craziness of life and hello to a more focused relationship with our Lord Jesus Christ. So come on down to the Cross Reference Library and discover a whole new world in what you believe. 

“A whole new world, a new fantastic point of view” 

- A Whole New World from Aladdin

How To Have a Biblical Marriage (Part 4) - Ask the Pastor

You can listen to Ask The Pastor every weekday at 9:00am MST on 97.1FM Hope Radio KCMI! You can also listen and subscribe to Ask The Pastor in your favorite podcast feed. Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Stitcher, Amazon Music and most other podcast services.

This edition of Ask the Pastor features Pastors Kiley Callaway, Tyson Lambertson, John Mulholland and Jon Simpson.

Jon Simpson
We've been on this topic of marriage, understanding the importance of having healthy marriages for our community, knowing that God has built really everything on marriage, all the way back in the beginning of the garden of Eden with Adam and Eve. And so we know that it matters to God, and yet we understand what a challenge it is to navigate marriage and to try to move in the right direction with our marriages, towards marriages that are God honoring. And so of course, we looked at a number of different topics inside of this and how to work at our marriages, work on our marriages. And so this week we want to look at the idea of hanging in marriage and resisting, sometimes the urge to get out. With the understanding that there are situations where individuals need to leave a marriage. For reasons of abuse or physical danger, we're not advocating that you would stay in every marriage all the time, no matter what. But we still want to talk probably to the majority of marriages that are going to have a temptation at times, to give up on it because of the pressure, because of conflict, because of not feeling the same feelings that we once felt. And so I think that's where scripture really gives us direction. And so Kylie, you got a kind of a key passage for us. Would you read that for us?

Kylie Callaway
Yes, John, I would. Matthew 19:3-6 says this, "And Pharisees came up to him and tested him. This is Jesus by asking, is it lawful to divorce one's wife for any cause? Jesus answered, Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning, made them male and female and said, therefore, a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife? And the two shall become one flesh. So they are no longer two but one flesh. What, therefore God has joined together, let no man separate."

John Mulholland
I think you need to continue for a second. So I'll read the next ones. "Then why did Moses say in the law that a man could give his wife a written notice of divorce and send her away? They asked. Jesus replied, Moses permitted divorce only as a concession to your hard hearts, but it was not what God had originally intended." So I think we can stop there. You know, when you talked about abuse or physical situations, I think this is a challenging topic because, each one of us in ministry, we have dealt with a situation where there has been abuse or someone's been in physical danger in their marriage. From a marriage perspective, we still have an ideal, and we still have to talk about that as an ideal thing, that divorce is not within God's plan. I think we can say that. And yes, we can allow for realities that each one of us has dealt with, but that doesn't eliminate, or just because there is always the sinfulness of man, there is hard hearts. I think there are times where we are afraid to talk about this because of these scenarios and situations that each one of us have dealt with. And I don't think we can just say, we can't talk about the ideal because there are realities in people's lives. But I also think the flip of that is true. We can't talk about the realities of people's lives and then deny the ideal, if what I'm saying makes sense. So, I know our caution is, like you said at the beginning, we don't want to say you should stay married no matter what, even in a physical, abusive situation. Cause none of us would ever say that. But the truth is that doesn't negate what God calls people who are married to, which is I need to strive in my relationship to not divorce. And the only reason I can, the only reason I want to, or the only reason that's allowed us because of the hardness of my heart. And that hardness might be because I don't love my spouse anymore. That hardness might be physical abuse of my spouse against me. But I think that allowance of divorce or the fact that the divorce was permitted is only a concession because of the sinfulness of mankind. So, as we think about those situations, we have to recognize that the only reason that we are even allowed to consider the possibility of divorce is because of our sinfulness, which might manifest itself in lots of different ways. But the bottom line is, when we get married God wants us to remain in that marriage. And if there's abuse, we should leave, or if there's physical danger, we should leave. If there's marital infidelity, we have the ability to step away from that.

Kylie Callaway
And I agree with you and the points that we laid out. I mean, if we are totally and completely following the word of God and seeking God first. Praying together, reading the word together, submitting to him, killing our flesh, dying to ourselves, and submitting to God. If we're learning how to have fun with one another, if we're learning how to fight fair, cause there will be fights, I think we're less likely to be abusive to our spouse. So I'd go back to say, you know, when it's gotten to that point, have we even taken the steps that we've talked about today, to make our marriage as Godly as it can be? There are those cases where yes, there is abuse, there is not only physical abuse, there's emotional and there's verbal abuse. And I do agree with that, I never promote divorce. I do say that I think there's areas for separation to where, that man or that woman could come to their senses. To realize that I've erred, on the wrong side of the word, and I've lost something valuable to me. That gives the room for the holy spirit to bring restoration. And sometimes unfortunately, because of the hardness of the heart, some people just don't want to reconcile.

John Mulholland
Do you have some pushback on that Tyson? I feel like there are some things you want to say about that.

Tyson Lambertson
No, I'm just trying to formulate the proper context in this, because there is that emotional and that physical and sexual idea of, this is not healthy. And it's not going to get better because it's a continual habitual pattern. And I think that habitual pattern really lends to the hardness of heart. Not putting Christ as reverence, of the center of our life, and in this idea of not giving up. I think those things we set aside, and we talk about marriages who perhaps just have these tit for tat fights and we get upset because of the way we're treated. Again, I realize that all of us are sinners and we don't have it. And when we have an authority issue or are always trying to one up, that lends to this separation and we cannot, we cannot go there. We have to stay strong in our connection, and that's what we're talking about, is remaining strong in the connection, not giving up. Realizing that you have to lay down your sword and sometimes surrender, to allow the Lord to do what he wants to between a husband and wife.

John Mulholland
I think also this comes down to, these are deep spiritual things that we're talking about. And whether it's physical, mental, emotional, or verbal abuse, those things are just manifestations of what's happening in that person's heart. So, I guess what I mean by that is, there's a whole lot of things wrong with a person who is doing that. And as followers of Christ, we want to help people deal with their sin problem and point them to Christ. And those things are just the way that their sins manifest themselves. So, if I have a couple or a person typically in this situation, it's been a female that, "My spouse is doing this, I want to get a divorce." I think that is a last step. I'm not saying it's not unbiblical, I'm not saying it's not uncalled for, and I'm not saying it's not unreasonable. I would be hesitant to just say, "Yeah, you should divorce that." And I'm not saying you shouldn't be in a place where you're safe or anything like that, but I think our world has this whole concept of marriage backwards in terms of what it is and what it's not. And what makes this just a really sensitive subject, are the people that each one of us have talked to, and the realities that they deal with. But we're still presented with an ideal, I mean it's something that God has created. So we have to be, cautious and hesitant in the way that we talk to people who are in the midst of those very real things.

Tyson Lambertson
Well, I think one of the reasons why divorce is such a strong statement from the Lord that God hates it. Is that it's just really the beginning in the relationship, because now you live separate lives. But perhaps you have kids and divorce destroys relationships, not only the marriage relationship, but down the chain, or even with parents and grandparents and all of those situations. So divorce is one of those things that just destroys relationship, and God wants us to have relationships. And so that's why it's so important to onboard people, to help you avoid giving up. We have those realities of infidelity, of abuse that sometimes we need to say, no, don't stick in there. This is bad, this is not going anywhere, nothing's getting better. But if there's some repentance and some forgiveness offered or asked for, who am I to say no to that? Who are we to say no to that? To stay in the game, to make it better, become self-aware of our own junk, and deal with our own stuff so that we can be better in a relationship. That's what I think about, never giving up, realizing I've got to deal with myself so that I can help my spouse, help Tammy be better.

Jon Simpson
Yeah. I think the heart of this is that the people of Israel lobbied to Moses for the, okay to do this. And Jesus just reasserting, "Hey, don't think God was okay with that. And there's just too often, that as a rule we gravitate away from, we just do as human beings, we gravitate to what we want away from what God commands us to do. And we want to make all the reasons in the world of why it's okay and justified to do it. But the truth is, Jesus did a hard reset on marriage and he said, "No, actually that wasn't okay." And I think at times we just need to be self-aware of our culture and recognize that we've moved the same direction. And we want divorce really for almost any reason, and we find all kinds of reasons to justify it. That's what happens. And yes, it's a hardness of the heart, just like it was in the Old Testament, a lot of the time. And I'm talking about the big middle of the majority, and we're talking about extremes and exceptions and they're there. But really I think if we're to be honest with ourselves, and honest with what God thinks, we'd hang in a lot more. We'd fight a lot harder, we'd resist our selfish desires a lot more, and we'd hold ourselves accountable. Our churches, our people, our pastors, whoever to, "Hey, no, getting out is not the right answer." Yes. Working on me and growing spiritually and being more, in tune and obedient to what the scripture says. Because just even as you've said, a lot of times in this Tyson, in this whole marriage talk, humility is one of the hardest things to do. But man, it's a good thing to just go, "Hey, have I gotten to a place where I've been hurt? I just don't want to forgive anymore, I don't want to stay in this, I don't like it. I'm not happy." And our culture puts a lot of emphasis on happiness, you know? I mean, I've heard people go, "Well, I shouldn't just stay married for the kids. You know, that's not a good enough reason." I'm like, maybe it is, maybe actually those kids, you know, it's been said in the secular world that we're just selfish in our marriages. We don't care that much about the kids, because the kids get damaged. We all know they get damaged a lot more in divorce, but where is that? Hey, maybe we should stay in this for the kids. I don't know. Maybe it's not a bad thing.

John Mulholland
No. I think what we've gotten away from is, marriage is a covenant. And covenant means commitment. And I think that's why God hates divorce, is cause marriage is so much an example of God's love for us. And the example of the church.

Tyson Lambertson
Well, a covenant, a blood covenant was never meant to be broken. A commitment in today's society is a contract that can be null or void. It'd be argued in a court of law. And those types of things, the covenant, the God honoring covenant is meant not to be broken. And I think the stick-to-itiveness is important. I do think culture has played into, if I'm not happy, I'm gonna just run, I'm out. And that's with anything, that's with education. But marriage is right in there, that if I'm not happy, I'm out; that dishonors the Lord tremendously. And I do think we all have to come to a place from humility that says, "Man, I'm a sinner in need of Jesus, just as much as anybody else. And I have to forgive because the Bible says, if I don't forgive, how can I forgive you?" And that's a real issue with your first neighbor, you know?

Jon Simpson
Yeah. Well, listen, uh, maybe a little, a little tougher topic this time, but hopefully helpful to you. And again, we'd encourage you as always to get in the scriptures and to see what God has to say about these things, but we care about your marriage. We care about the marriages in our valley and, uh, and we know how important it is that we're strengthening marriage. And so we just pray that you would continue to work at your marriage.

What's New at Cross Reference Library? Finding God Together

This Life We Share - Life overflows with the good and beautiful, the painful and unexpected--anxiety and peace, waiting and direction, loneliness and friendship, faith, hope, and love. Twists and turns mark our individual stories, but we need not wander those paths by ourselves. In This Life We Share, Maggie Wallem Rowe comes alongside as an empathetic friend and companion in the different seasons and struggles in life, offering hope, laughter, and wisdom for the uncertain terrain. Exploring the threads of our journeys--inner, intentional, relational, and God-led--Maggie provides winsome insights and practical guidance for caring for ourselves, loving others well, and holding the hand of God who is over it all.

Hurt Road - For Third Day guitarist Mark Lee, the road to success was not without missteps and surprises along the way. Hurt Road is the story of a young man who found in music a refuge from the uncertainties of life. Who set out to discover a better way to live than constantly struggling to make sure life turned out the way he planned. Who stopped substituting what’s next for what’s now. And who learned that through all the miles between birth and death come sweet mercies--and music for the journey.

Birds of Pray - They were the first No. 1 seed in NFL history to enter the playoffs as an underdog. Their star quarterback was out with a season-ending knee injury. The five-time Super Bowl champion New England Patriots towered over them. But public opinion didn’t matter to the Philadelphia Eagles. They believed in each other. The band of Christian brothers on the team believed in the God of the impossible, and they played for an audience of One. The most extensive book to explore the Christian faith shared by many of the team’s players, Birds of Pray details the incredible inside story behind the Eagles’ capture of the biggest prize in professional sports: the Vince Lombardi Trophy. Through exclusive interviews with the players, never-before-seen photos, and insider accounts of the miracle season’s most memorable moments, Philly native and Associated Press sports writer Rob Maaddi reveals a side of the team the world has yet to fully witness.

Is Tithing A Biblical Requirement? - Ask the Pastor

You can listen to Ask The Pastor every weekday at 9:00am MST on 97.1FM Hope Radio KCMI! You can also listen and subscribe to Ask The Pastor in your favorite podcast feed. Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Stitcher, Amazon Music and most other podcast services.

This edition of Ask the Pastor features Pastors Brad Kilthau, Gary Hashley, and Tim Hebbert.

Tim Hebbert
Our question today is, "Is tithing a biblical commandment for the Christian living in the age of grace? The word tithe means 10%, it means 10. And we can go back early into the book of Genesis when Abraham encounters, this mysterious fellow named Melchizedek, he's the prince of Salem, he's kind of a symbolic imagery of who Jesus is going to come someday. The word Salem, meaning peace. And he comes in to the land of Salem and needs some help. I'm paraphrasing heavily here. And he offers up a 10% offering of tithe to King Melchizedek. And so that's where it started in and through the course of the Old Testament, God lays that thought process on his people that they should always give back to him. And I think what we need to see about tithing in its foundation to start with is, tithing is an act. It's not an emotional response. As we hear lots of people, it's not a love offering. It's an act of obedience. I heard a pastor say this once and he was talking about Sunday morning. He said, "God deserves the first fruits of everything." And he said, we come to church on Sunday. Hopefully if you're out there listening, you're getting into your local house of worship. On Sunday, we come to our houses of worship on Sunday to give God the first fruits of the week. Well tithing is giving back to God, the first fruits of his provision. And I can make a pretty good case and it's not just a financial giving back. It's a giving back also of time. My mom taught me and my brother and sister early on that it was not out of our net income, it was out of our gross income. I was telling Brad and Gary, you guys this story, my dad used to always tell this, and it was this small country church, and they were struggling in financial difficulty and they brought on a man to be in eldership because they knew he was really good with money and they thought maybe God would call him in to help them get back into a good place of decent finances. So a year later, this church is just teaming with finances to do all the work they'd wanted to do. And they said, "How did you make this happen so quickly?" Well, as the story goes, this gentleman was the owner and operator of the local grainery. And he said, "Well, most of you are farmers, and when you brought your crops into the grainery, I just took 10% off, and just gave it to the church and you didn't even miss it." And the reality of that story is, when we give to God first, He always leaves us enough provision to take care of our own needs. If we're obedient to give back to Him first. Gary, is tithing still a requirement in the church today?

Gary Hashley
Well, you know, people love when it comes to the subject of tithing to say, "Doesn't Paul say, we're not under law, but we're under grace?" And that's true. The problem with that reasoning is tithing, as you said, started before Moses, before the commandments, before the nation of Israel, it started with Abraham. And so it predates the law. And so people say, oh nuts, you know, am I still required to give? I grew up in a ministry home of the three of us, Tim and I both grew up in ministry homes and neither of our dads made a lot of money. And I remember my dad refused to take us to eat in a restaurant if tipping was expected, so we could do the McDonald's thing. And we could do the Ponderosa steakhouse because they actually had signs that said, no tipping, please. And so my dad would take us and, you know, tipping is one of those things. Where do you give to the person who has, you know, served you, and my dad has since learned to tithe. My step-mom has made sure he's done that. But you know, as we think about our giving, I don't think it's ever been solved. This, do you have to tithe thing has ever been solved around the church, but the thought about giving is prevalent in scripture. So if you don't want to tithe and say, I don't want to be limited, I don't want to be required. I don't want to be restricted. I mean, I'll tell you if they add the tithe or the tip onto my bill at the restaurant, they never get as much as if I add it on, because if I add it on it's my free will, if they added on that's all they get. But when it comes to the church today, I believe that Paul teaches generosity. In 2 Corinthians 8 He says, "We want you to know brothers about the grace of God. That's been given among the churches of Macedonia for any severe test of affliction, their abundance of joy and their extreme poverty have overflowed in a wealth of generosity on their part, for they gave according to their means, as I can testify and beyond their means of their own accord." In other words, they chose to do this begging us earnestly for the favor of taking part in the relief of the saints and this, not as we expected, but they gave themselves first to the Lord. And then by the will of God, to us. You know, Paul talks about generosity and he talks about giving. He talks about even not what was expected when it came to their giving. Later on in the next chapter, chapter nine, starting at verse six, the point is this, Paul says, "Whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly and whoever sows bountifully will also reap bountifully. Each one must give, as he has decided in his heart, not reluctantly or under compulsion. For God loves a cheerful giver, and God is able to make all grace abound to you so that having all sufficiency in all things at all times, you may abound in every good work." And again, it talks about giving in a, I want to mode, not in an, I have to mode, right? We are not under law, but we are under grace. I think what Paul is saying is that our giving should be an attitude issue. What is my attitude toward giving? And it should be an appreciation thing. I appreciate that God lets me earn. I appreciate that God provides in my life, in my family, and for my needs. And I want to share, I've often had people say, but pastor Gary, I can't afford to tithe, that I can't afford to give. And I'll often say, but I find I can't afford not to, not that I'm playing a game with God, but I find that when I put God first and I honor him and I'm generous toward him and toward his ministries, that everything else seems to fall in place and I've encouraged couples. Why don't you just, you know, test God a little bit? If you can say that in a nice way, why don't you set aside say three months, and give to God as you feel you should. And at the end of the time, evaluate, and you know, I've never had anybody come to me and say, pastor Gary, that was the stupidest thing you ever suggested. But I have had people come back to me and say, you know, once we started giving, it seems like everything else fell into place. And I'm not saying that, you know, God's an investment scheme. I'm just saying that God takes care of those who are faithful to him. So, Brad, you've been sitting there nodding your head. You haven't been shaking it. So that's encouraging, we'll let you out our time.

Brad Kilthau
Well, I like what you guys have shared today. I mean, it's been really good. Tim bringing out that the idea of where tithing comes from and taking us back in the scriptures, because I know a lot of people have thought that it's some church-made thing or man-made thing that we put upon people. And, no, no, it was shown in the scriptures back in the beginning, as you said in Genesis, and then Gary, I loved how you shared and I keep nodding my head, yes to you guys, because, it's a heart thing, you know, God doesn't need your money, but it's a heart thing that he's looking for. He's looking for a heart that's sold out to him and I'd like to kind of finish up our time a little bit with, I think we need to see that there are benefits to tithing. One of the things is when we tithe God becomes our protector instead of our bank account, being our protector. And I was thinking about the passage of scripture in Malachi 3:11. And the Lord says, "I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes so that he will not destroy the fruit of your ground, nor shall the vine fail to bear fruit for you in the field." Wow. That's a pretty amazing statement. The Lord says basically to a people that would give to him as they weren't doing at the time and he was calling upon them to, he says, "I'm going to protect you. I'm going to make sure that no one sneaks in and destroys your field or your crops." And he's also said, "I'm going to make sure that, that vine, uh, maybe it's a little reluctant to bear for you this year." He says, I'm going to tell it to bear fruit for you. And so when you think about God and his power, how foolish it would be for us to trust our bank account more than we would trust in the Lord. The biblical principle that we learned in Malachi 3:11, is kind of what you were saying Gary. Is the Lord is just saying, trust me, trust me. I'm the one who protects you from robbers and thieves and Satan. I'm the one who protects your livelihood. I'm the one who makes it possible for your crops to grow. And I'm the one who makes sure you have food to put in your mouth. And again, we kind of get back to, how big is our God? We should trust the one who makes the sun come up in the morning a whole lot more than we trust the guy that's trying to make money for us in the stock market. We should trust the one who gives our heart, the next beat, our next breath of air a whole lot more than those $20 bills that we have in our wallet that we think are our protector. And so when God becomes our protector, rather than our money, it does something for us as a Christian. It reduces our stress, it reduces our worry. It reduces our fear because we give it over to God, instead of trusting a dollar or somebody in charge of giving us that dollar, we're trusting in God. And I guess what we need to clarify here is, we're not making a bargain with God when we tithe. We're not saying, "God, if I give you this money, then I get an insurance plan back, so make sure I'm going to be taken care of." No, we're not looking for an insurance policy, we're just showing that we're putting our trust in God. And that's what God wants more than any thing else, and he honors that kind of faith. That's what tithing shows us, He's our protector. And I think the second thing I want to share is, and there's a whole lot of benefits, but the second thing is, tithing brings us into a more intimate relationship with the Lord. When you go back to Malachi 3:10, the Lord says, "Bring all your tithes in into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house." And then he goes on to say, "Try me out. See if I'm going to honor what I'm saying to you." Some of our bibles say, "Test me in this." That's what God says, test me in this. And he says, "I'll open the windows of heaven and pour blessings on you." It's like God is saying, "Do you want to see how involved I am in your life. Do you want to see who really writes your paycheck? Do you want to see who keeps your washer and dryer running after the warranty has passed? Do you want to see the one who stocks your refrigerator with food?" "Start giving to me and you'll start seeing how involved I am in your life." Because you're trusting in Him and not the money. You're not looking at the money, you're looking at God. And you really can't see that kind of working of God in your life when you and I fail to trust God by tithing. When we don't tithe, we don't get to see the interaction of God in our life. Like we really can when we do tithe. And there are so many benefits that God gives to us when we're faithful. When we trust in him and money is one of the best ways to show how really true our heart is. We can talk about it all we want, but money is an action that shows trust. And I know a lot of people don't like to talk about money in the church. And probably I think because most of the time when we talk about money, there's always guilt that comes along with it. But we got to remember Jesus talked about money a lot. In fact, when you get in the New Testament, he talked about money, more than anything else other than the kingdom. He brought up money and the importance of money and how we should be stewards of that. And so we shouldn't be afraid to talk about money in the church, because when we're talking about tithing or giving to the Lord, it should actually be something on kind of the forefront of our minds when we walk into that church on Sunday. I get to give to the Lord today, I get to have this act of faith and trusting, not just talking about it, but actually I get to participate in worshiping God by trusting in him, by tithing and giving to his work.

What's New at Cross Reference Library? Marriage and Family

Love & Respect in the Family - Psychological studies affirm what the Bible has always said: children need the love that God tells us to give them [Titus 2:4]. And parents desire the respect that Scripture plainly says is our due [Exodus 20:12]. Love & Respect in the Family gives practical guidance to help break the Crazy Cycle of family conflict and replace it with a healthy, energizing rhythm. Based on what the Bible says to parents about parenting, this book focuses on achieving healthy family dynamics. Dr. Eggerichs offers unprecedented transparency by including input from his wife and three adult children, who share wisdom gained from the good, the bad, and the ugly of their family life. It’s all here in this eye-opening exploration of the biblical principles on parenting that can help make families function as God intended. 

Mother & Son - It is easy to relate to the need of all of us to feel a mother’s love, but is that the same thing as our need for respect? Based on the insight that a mother’s love is important but respect is the key to her son’s heart, this book will teach what every mom needs to know, what every son needs to hear. We all realize that little girls need their daddies love, but no one is promoting the truth that little boys (and adult ones) need their moms’ respect. No wonder mothers feel left in the dark on this topic. What makes this issue all the more urgent is that moms are coaching fathers to love their daughters, but no one has coached moms on specific ways to show respect to their sons, at least not in a way that is applicable and fully explained. Even for young boys, the Respect Effect is nothing short of astounding when applied properly.  

Sacred Marriage - Gary Thomas’s Sacred Marriage has attained the rank of a contemporary classic. Its unique and inspiring perspectives on marriage as a spiritual discipline have influenced well known church leaders, popular teachers, and thousands of readers worldwide. Sacred Marriage doesn’t tell how to build a better marriage--it shows how your marriage can help you deepen your relationship with God. From the practice of forgiveness, to the ecstasy of lovemaking, to the history you and your spouse create together, everything about your marriage is filled with the potential for discovering and revealing Christ’s character. Now with discussion questions for couples and small groups, this book may very well alter your marriage profoundly. It will most certainly change you. Because whether it is delightful or difficult, your marriage can become a doorway to a closer walk with God

What Are Some of The Greatest Hymns? - Ask the Pastor

You can listen to Ask The Pastor every weekday at 9:00am MST on 97.1FM Hope Radio KCMI! You can also listen and subscribe to Ask The Pastor in your favorite podcast feed. Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Stitcher, Amazon Music and most other podcast services.

This edition of Ask the Pastor features Pastors Mike Clement and David Clement.

Mike Clement

We were asked if we'd be willing to put together a couple of programs where we talk about some of the great hymns of the faith and look at maybe their hymn stories and the content of the hymn, and some things like that. So when we really want to share something with you before we get started with this, I got 10 points. So if you've got a pencil and paper, you can write down 10 points. Can't preach that on a Sunday morning, it takes too long. Number one, music is a primary form of worship. Now different churches and different traditions have handled music in different ways. I read that some of the reformers banned music entirely in their worship services. Calvin, didn't think a whole lot of it, John Calvin, he kind of tolerated it, but he put it on a very low level. Actually the guy who was the president of the school that I graduated from, put it way below the preaching ministry. He didn't, and I heard of a pastor in Philadelphia, back the turn of the previous century. And he wouldn't allow a choir in his church. Yeah. He said, in fact, he said from the pulpit, when Satan was thrown out of heaven, he landed in the choir loft. And so he just wouldn't allow it. Martin Luther though, elevated music to the same level as teaching and doctrine. He thought it was really, really important. Scripture mentions music as a form of worship. Psalm 100:2 says, "Serve the Lord with gladness, come into his presence with singing." Dave. You've got a couple of verses there.

David Clement
Yeah. And Ephesians 5:19, it says, "Speaking to yourselves in Psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your hearts to the Lord." And then over in Colossians is a similar verse. It says, "Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom, teaching and admonishing, one another in Psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your heart unto the Lord." And we could see pictures of this all throughout those scriptures. One that comes to mind vividly of me obviously, is David, David wrote many of the Psalms. He was very gifted in poetry if you would, and in songwriting. And he wrote many of the Psalms and many at times, how he went to singing his praises of the Lord, or, you know, some of them more prayers that he had to the Lord. I think of a Psalm 52 is a prayer that David wrote unto the Lord and talking about his own sin, his life, and just praying to the Lord through hymns, through songs, through spiritual song. I think it's very, I think it's great. And we see that in the scripture,

Mike Clement
We don't have a lot recorded in scripture as to what the early church services were like. And God probably did that so that we wouldn't be caught up in just imitating, the rituals and so forth. But there were some things, the preaching of the word was primary and there was also music early in the first century church.

David Clement
Actually in the first prison ministry, it started with--thrown into prison there at Philippi. They were at midnight, they opened their voices and they were singing praises unto the Lord at midnight. And then there was the first prison ministry, right.

Mike Clement
There you go. Third thing we have is two primary goals of music and worship are, first of all, to praise and glorify God. And secondly, to encourage and exhort other believers. I'm reading a book right now by A.W. Tozer. Tozer wrote that serious students of God's word should equip themselves with a good translation of the Bible and a hymn book. And he just emphasized that many of the doctrines of God's word are found in good Godly hymns that were written down through the ages. And so he said that was a great way to learn the truth of God's word is through the hymn book. Another thing, music is used in worship, but it must always reflect the person and character of God. Now there is secular music, there's cultural music, there's just all kinds of different forms of music. But when you talk about what's going to be in church, in worship or, an individual using it for worship, well, that's a whole different level. Mom, when she was a young teenager worked for, American Missionary Fellowship, which was the organization that had Camp Rock at that time. And she was a summer missionary and she was sent out to remote areas to do vacation Bible schools. And it was an all day vacation Bible school. And they did all kinds of things, but one of the things they did was they sang hymns. Well, some of these kids had never been in church, so they didn't know any of the hymns. And she told how with one group, she sang a hymn with them, or a camp song and then said, "Well, what would you like to sing?" And one of the little boys said, "Jimmy, Crack Corn," There's nothing wrong with secular music and things that are not sacred. But when you're talking about in the worship service, when you're worshiping the Lord, either in a service with other people or by yourself, then it ought to reflect the character of God.

And what we find in Isaiah 6, is Isaiah is caught up into the throne room of God. And he sees things that he can't even describe and he is struck with his own sinfulness. One of the things he says though, is he sees angels on either side of the throne of God, and they're calling to one another. Holy holy, holy. And there are a lot of hymns that talk about the holiness of God. Holiness, actually has the connotation of something that is different and something that is set aside from other things, and God is different from his creation. There is a view of God called pantheism, which says that God is in everything, He's in the rocks, He's in the trees, He's in the birds. And there are people that get all off on that kind of thing. You know, God is in nature. God is outside, he's in our world, but He's outside of our world. He is not part of creation. He created creation, he made the universe. And it also has the idea of being separate and separation is always separate from something and separated to something else. And this conference that I went to this weekend, Dave, one of the guys brought that up and he said, "You know," he said, "Sometimes in our circles, we get all hung up about separation. Oh, we need to be separate from this and separate for that." He said, "We got it backwards. We need to be separated unto God. And if we're separated under God, then some of these other things just need to fall by the wayside. They they need to be taken out of our life so that I'm more dedicated and more separated for the Lord. And I really like that music in worship is to always reflect the person of God, the character of God and the truth of God's word. I remember years ago there was a very popular song and, I like it. It's a Christian song, but some people had some problems with the theology in it. They didn't think that it was accurate theology, and they expressed that to the writer. And the writer's response was, well, this is the way that God gave it to me. Well, I don't have a problem with the song, but I really didn't like his answer. Seriously, he's kind of elevating his songwriting to the level of the inspiration of God's word. God's word is inspired, God's word is without error, God's word is God's truth. God may move us to do something and encourage us, and bring things to mind, but good music needs to always be in agreement with God's word. And if it's not, then it's not good music, right. There's a problem with it. Well, a couple of other things at the end, not all old music is good. We were, we were in a church in New Jersey and they had a choir, bless their hearts. They would just be up there just singing away. I couldn't understand what they were singing. It wasn't a real good choir. In fact, if I wanted to get anything out of their singing, I had to take my hymn book and find the hymn that they were singing and follow along so I knew what it was. We know a fellow who started a new church over in Wyoming, and he really started a church with a bunch of people that were totally unchurched. He had very little music. They would have one hymn in the worship service and they'd sing it three times cause they didn't know it. And he said he never had just instrumental music because people didn't know the hymns. It didn't mean anything to them. Anyway, not all old music is good. Not all new music is bad. There have been some more recent things, and I'm going to mention Majesty. And somebody's gonna say "gracious that is ancient." Not as ancient as I am now. When that came out, it just really touched my heart, and it focuses on God. And that's something that I didn't put in our little outline here, Dave, but in most hymn books, in the beginning of the hymn book, there is an index, and the index will point out sections that are dedicated. So there's a section for Christmas music. There's a section for the other music. The vast majority of our music written today and written in the past is testimonial, and testimonial hymns are not bad. This is what God means to me. This is what God did for me. But most hymn books have a very small section that's dedicated to worship and that focuses only on the Lord. And I think that's kind of significant anyway. Not all popular music is good, just because people like it doesn't mean that it's good now. They like, it means something to them, but the teaching behind that music and, and the presentation of it, may not be good at all. Music is different from one culture to another. In fact, it's even different in different parts of our own country, where you've got a local flavor. We live in the west and we get a lot more country western stuff. And I never used to listen to bluegrass music, but I've kind of developed a taste for it. I'm enjoying it, the Rochesters and some people that we know. Music is different from one culture to another. And another thing for us to keep in mind is that those who are musicians and singers in the Old Testament were priests. They were priests, they were called of God. Now in the New Testament, it says that all believers are priests. Were a holy people, were a peculiar people, were a royal priesthood. But the whole area of worship in the Old Testament, that was led by Godly people, people that were to know what God's word has to say and be familiar with it. I met a fellow one time who was a part of a music group. And they were a very popular music group, but he shared with me, "If the kids knew the lifestyle that I live off of the stage, they never would listen to what I have to say." And unfortunately that can be true of pastors and preachers as well. So all we're going to do is we're going to look at some hymns that have passed the test of time. They're found in most hymn books, been used by most churches. We intend to look at the stories behind them. And we also intend to look at some of the things that they teach. So that's the game plan. And we were right, Dave, all that we got through was the outline, right?

What's New at Cross Reference Library? Just Be You!

Optimisfits - With passion, purpose, a large dose of humor, and a wild sense of wonder, Optimisfits offers a road map for a better way to live. It’s calling you to seize your status as an outsider and wage a fierce rebellion against the hopelessness of the world by living out an intensely optimistic approach to every day. Ben Courson and a band of misfits invite you to join them on an epic adventure with God and with the Squad. 

Finding Rest - In today’s unsettling times, even those who have never before struggled with mental health can find themselves reeling. And for Christians, especially those who’ve despaired of help from a church that has stigmatized mental health challenges as a lack of faith, the way forward can be difficult to see. Jon Seidl is the guide you need. Having fought his way through crippling anxiety, life-altering OCD, and suicidal thoughts, he knows the value of practical advice grounded in strong biblical truth. And that’s just what he offers in Finding Rest. Filled with compelling stories and humor from someone still on his own journey, this book also provides a lifeline for friends and family who long for concrete ways to help relieve the suffering of their loved ones. And it lays out thoughtful, needed paths for the body of Christ to become a refuge of hope for the anxious. 

(Un)Qualified - Many of us are overwhelmed by the gap between our weaknesses and our dreams, between who we are and who God says we are meant to be. We feel unqualified to do God’s work or to live out the possibilities we imagine. But God has a way of using our weaknesses for good. In fact, God loves unqualified people. This is a book about understanding your identity in light of who God is. It’s a book about coming to terms with the good, the bad, and the unmentionable in your life and learning to let God use you. It’s about charging into the gap between your present circumstances and your future dreams and meeting God there. After all, God can’t bless who you pretend to be. Fortunately for us God is in the business of using broken people to do big things.  

One of the mistakes that I constantly make in life is worrying about what other people think about me. Always triple checking to see if my look or my personality reaches the expectations of those around me. But like it says in (Un)qualified, “God is far less intimidated by your failures and limits than you are.” So don’t try to fit the mold that you believe everyone wants you to squeeze into. Instead, fix your eyes on the person God wants you to be. The book, (Un)qualified is filled with so many things like that, speaking to anyone who feels like they are unqualified in life. Probably one of the best metaphors I saw in this book was, “Sometimes our image and identity have been treated and retreated and bleached and buried so many times that the original color is beyond recognition.” I generally like this analogy for two reasons. One, because I know my sister has changed the color of her hair countless times, and once I get used to one color, she changes it again. And two, when I read it for the first time, I realized that I feel the exact same way about my personality. For a large part of my life, I have been changing my personality for those around me so much that the unique personality that I started out with has nearly disappeared. But when it comes to that line of thinking, another one of our inspiring books, Optimisfits, has this to say: Quit worrying about what other people think and decide to live your own adventure. If any of the great heroes of the Bible were worried about what society thought of them, their stories would have ended quite differently. The other book that I found a lot of encouraging information in, was Finding Rest. I knew right away that this book was going to be relatable, because the author used the first chapter to explain that he wasn’t a professional on the subject of anxiety or OCD. He is just a normal person like you and me, who has dealt with both anxiety and OCD on a personal basis. And he even said, “Pain and suffering are being used by God for our good and His glory.” So if we are going through a mental or physical pain, we just need to remember that the end result in God’s plan for us will be for our good and His glory. So come on down to the Cross Reference Library and check out these amazing books. Never forget to let your light shine in the darkest moments!

There is a crack in everything. That’s how the light gets in. 

--Leonard Cohen